An UnSeamingly difficult problem...

wackedoutbiker · Post by **wackedoutbiker** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:15 am

I've been looking for a way to get rid of the seams in the textures in my character...got any ideas? (this is a base model for adding clothes and armor on Elder Scrolls IV style)

I'll send images later when I have time...

psYco · Post by **psYco** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:11 am

if your using a tiled texture then, u culd try downing the free version of texture maker and using it to make them 'seamless' if ur using a texture map however, you can just blurr the edges in photoshop or the like...

GD1 · Post by **GD1** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:24 pm

there shouldn't be seems in your characters texture. unwrap it in lithunwrap and paint over that. it should be one texture, not tiled.

es:IV oblivion uses shaders, detail mapping, specular mapping, and normal mapping. none of which are usable in RF. you may be able to get a somewhat similar look, but it will never be up to par with oblivion. aim your standards lower. look at ES:III or even quake:III. that is about where RF is at.

if ur adding clothes, u dont have to be too worried about how the base model looks, since it will be covered. but you have to account for the memory that needs to be allocated for all those separate textures and objects. its also gonna be pretty easy to get the poly count high, especially once the different objects start to add up. so just keep an eye on it. everything will have to be pretty low-res.

Spyrewolf · Post by **Spyrewolf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:42 pm

and normal mapping. none of which are usable in RF.

ahem....see a mistake in last post

i know what your saying though, oblivion has more shaders/texture support than RF, which make a difference.

however this has nothing to do with tiling, Lithunwrap as stated previously is your best option here lean a UV mapping program and plan your models and UV's it'll become easier and easier, you'll learn techniques that'll help.

at work so i cant post it, but i have a great tute for lithunwrap/Ultimate Unwrap that helped me heaps, i'll post it when i get home.

wackedoutbiker · Post by **wackedoutbiker** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:48 am

Well, I can aim as high as I want with my graphics, mind you. Don't be giving me any crap on how everything has to be low-res, because I am mostly working on the characters and stuff: it won't matter because I probably won't be done with most of my game content until RF2 is ready anyway...besides, how am I gonna get noticed if I make my game look like yesteryear's thing? It's an insult to me and my project to tell me to make it low quality. Give me a break.

Hmmm...maybe I won't actually make decent-looking characters, but instead just make a game with stick people and lots of unnecessary blood and gore...yes, then people will take me seriously...not.

But yes, I will use the LithUnWrap thing...and obviously I am going to normal map the characters to give them a nice, clean look.

Spyrewolf · Post by **Spyrewolf** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:22 am

....

Don't be giving me any crap on how everything has to be low-res,

well i hate to burst your bubble their sport but even proffessional developer won't go above 3k poly's

a.) the ability to have lo-rez models with hi-poly normals is a benefactor, + if you can have a 2k model looking like a 5k model then engine can have more models on screen at a time. looking even more impressive.

b.) having insane detail is not needed for in game characters, no matter what engine. also RF is a nice engine, but we're not in the DX9 bracket yet, so we lack shaders, ect. it's just not that efficient. so we are kinda forced to use a lower res game model. this is not a bad thing, it's just a fact we have to face.

i think if your after techniques and help, biting peoples head's off for no apparent reason is not justified, if you carry this on no-one will be willing to help.

Well, I can aim as high as I want with my graphics

OH REALLY!, well hate to point out RF doesn't really give a crap about videocards not untill we have T&L (which we currently don't) so unless you got a beefy processor and craploads of RAM stick to the lower calibur model.

take a chill pill, GD1 gave you some sound advise. nor do i feel that he was insulting you, if you can't take advise, don't ask.

scott · Post by **scott** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:50 am

wow, i think this is the most 'heated' discusion these forums have ever had, i agree with spyerwolf, wackedoutbiker you was a bit harsh with your comment.

and it realy dont matter what engine you use, its always the same, the lower the better, means more computers can runi it, more people can buy it, wider audiance.

in my opinion graphics isnt everything, final fantasy 7 never had good graphics but its one of the best games ever made in my opinion, while you could have 5k poly models, you can get better looking 2k models, its not the amount, i try to ignore the limit, when im modeling, i create the model too look good, with textures, then go through the model removing pointles pollys, then think about what would happen if i joind two pollys that are next to each other up, sometimes the difference isnt even noticable with a texture on, when it does become noticable then think how often will the player see this? if its not often then join them, if it is often think, ok, how much worse dose it look am i happy with the lower quality, when you go through the models like that you will see that your models will look as good but you can have aload more, making the game better, for example, a motorway with 5 cars on isnt gona look good, but if you can have 30 cars then its gona look alot more realistic.

wackedoutbiker · Post by **wackedoutbiker** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:16 pm

take a chill pill, GD1 gave you some sound advise. nor do i feel that he was insulting you, if you can't take advise, don't ask.

Sorry, I don't do drugs.

And I'm sorry about my harsh comments. I was just having a bad day and it sounded like he was trying to tell me not to put any effort into my stuff...but I really don't care about the polycount now, I just want my characters and items to look good because everyone else is trying to, and if I'm not up to those standards (it can be done) then people are less likely to care about what I've done. Graphics may not make a game fun, but they sure as hell get it noticed. After all, that's what gamers go for anyway. Why have only one good thing about your game when you can have more?

But I said I would make my models as good as I want to. For removing needless polys there's always MeLODy...but then I'd have to re-rig the models to skeletons, would I not? Oh well...

And where can I find that LithUnWrap tutorial?

GD1 · Post by **GD1** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:07 am

lol, why is it that my posts are always the ones that start fights. no need to get upset, just tryin to help u out bud. but i can understand. i've had a lot of hard days myself in the past two months, i've recently said a lot of things to a lot of people that i really ended up regretting later. it just happens when ur upset. no offense taken.

i didn't mean "don't put effort in ur graphics". if anything, making low-res stuff requires more skill, in order to make it look good. im sure ur stuff will turn out great. but u just have to remember the engine's limitations. a decent looking scene running at 60fps is a lot more appealing than an amazingly beautiful scene running a 5fps.

Spyrewolf · Post by **Spyrewolf** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:00 pm

as promised

http://www.dosfx.com/tutorials/csgirl/csgirl105.asp <- lith unwrap tute very good, has tutes on modelling from scratch as well

here's a link from the begining of the tute, this helped me get started it's for counterstrike but the principles are the same.
http://www.dosfx.com/tutorials/csgirl/csgirl001.asp

and a zip containing all the references you asked for in the other post. actually these are good references for any modelling humanoid characters, these are the one i use all the time to help me get my proportions right, how you model the character is up to you. i used this for my goon model i did recently. had break the zip in two though the forum only lets you do uploads of 256kb so one has left and right images, the other has front and back

Juutis · Post by **Juutis** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:54 pm

Thanks for the pics! Although I normally draw my own reference pictures, these may come handy one day.

Also, I must point out one thing.
Low res != Low quality

Lowpoly models don't have to look bad or even decent, with enough skill they can look stunning.

wackedoutbiker · Post by **wackedoutbiker** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:35 pm

Thanks, this might be quite helpful! But I don't have internet at home, and I would prefer that the pages be in a downloadable archive I could save to disk and take home. Oh well...I still appreciate this cool stuff...

Never mind, someone put up an archive already!

SithMaster · Post by **SithMaster** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:55 am

If you have firefox installed you can save page as web page complete. it wont be 100% the same but it will have the text and pics.

hike1 · Post by **hike1** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:02 pm

http://terrymorgan.net/download.htm

'Edit Virgil clothes.zip"

or something like that. Basically you start with a bitmap that's
1 color (seamless) then put your textures on top of it.

wackedoutbiker · Post by **wackedoutbiker** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:21 am

Thanks, but I got a system already. Others may find this helpful. I'm going for a more serious hi-res look. Who knows when I'll finish?