I wish RF was like this engine

[firzen]

http://www.3dgamestudio.com

No I ain't spamming

If you wander around the website for A7, you will see their prices. they weren't as high as they are on the previous version A6.

Now, compared to RF, their editor is much easier to work with in my opinion. You might want to check their demo.
Since I tried 3DGS A4 Demo, I was hooked. My advantage? I keep reformatting... That means 30 dat trial limit doesn't quite apply. They I tried A5. then A6. Altho I didn't like A7 so much.

I never touched Python, only C-Script (from 3DGS) so I ain't going to comment scripting.

I might be asking for too much, but for example 3DGS has some ready made templates, wich helped me getting the hang of it. As fas as I tried, RF1 doesn't.
The graphics question, I think it's solved, OGRE seems to be nice. btw are you using BSP for level geometry?

All this senseless and loose sentences to say this:

Could you check WED and see how it works? Do you think you could edit the level editor (I think you are already doing so from what I heard) to be a little easier to understand? I noticed it kinda uses the Genesis3D method for creating brushes.

Maybe I just need time, but that right there was the easiest engine I have ever used. If possible, try to get a little inspiration for it on RF2. Unless that severy postpones the release. It's already far enough :\

Thanks for your time
FirZen

[Matte]

Is Lite-C also good for making games, or should u take the real version? Because my game could be good in this ( see game design )

[Juutis]

Welcome to the RF forums.

First of all, it may not be the wisest idea to come to a game engine forum and start praising some other engine. I don't personally mind but some people could be offended (for no reason, in my opinion) and I've seen some nasty things start from posts like this.

I downloaded the 3DGS trial (A7?) and checked the level editor. Not bad, not bad at all. The editor crashed though, and I can't seem to get it running again. Can it export the level to a .MAP file? If it can, then RF's editor could import it, and you could use the level in RF. If not, well, don't worry. RFEdit(Pro) is actually quite powerful once you learn it. You can also use Worldcraft (which is pretty similar to WED, I think) with RF.

btw are you using BSP for level geometry

RF1 does use BSP, I believe.


I wish you luck with RF. That is, if you have decided to give it a serious try and plan on making a game.

[firzen]

I will give it a try.

Also it wasn't my intention to start any heated argument.

The editor crashing... That's some of the stuff from A7 that I don't like. In it's early stage it isn't very stable. However try to find an A6 demo. That one is stable. Don't know if it is still supported.

By the way, the engine keeps crashing on me when trying to preview. It doesn't happen with the Tech Demo for example. I thought it was because my GFX card has problems with DX9 (I can't play Half Life 2 without forcing DX8).

As for Lite-C Free... well, used with RF it might be nice. It's basically the script editor. Have you used their tables to compare the differences?

WED can import .MAP .WMB I think. So it's safe to assume it exports both those formats but I havent formatted in a while (aka I haven't used it since my last 30 day limit expired)

My advice for you Matte, either get the Extra version of A6 (you might find it on eBay) or the version next to Lite-C Full.


FirZen

[QuestOfDreams]

Have you used their tables to compare the differences?

Funny you mention this. They once had RF in the list of engines they compare gamestudio with but with pretty outdated specs. I sent them a request to update the comparison table with the current state of RF. Shortly after that they completely removed RF from the table. *LOL*


RF2 won't use the same editor as RF. I'm even working on a new editor for RF at the moment ...

[firzen]

Never knew that... What they do I don't care as long as I like the final product.
What a coincidence. Still, 3DGS is a nice engine.

FirZen

[AndyCR]

Funny you mention this. They once had RF in the list of engines they compare gamestudio with but with pretty outdated specs. I sent them a request to update the comparison table with the current state of RF. Shortly after that they completely removed RF from the table. *LOL*

Interesting. I once sent them a similar email, if I recall; either that or thought about doing so many times. I guess they decided that they didn't want to compare themselves to RF. Did they even bother to respond?

I never touched Python, only C-Script (from 3DGS) so I ain't going to comment scripting.

I used c-script on two commercial game projects, writing over 20,000 lines of code in it (a very large cutscene system). It's great for simple things, but if you start doing anything complex your life as maintainer of the code becomes very painful very quickly. The API has bugs in it (at least as of the last version I used seriously, which was A6, particularly in file manipulation and strings), which cost me a month's work at one point trying to find out what was wrong with my code when it ended up being theirs. Python is much much more scalable; c-script after a certain point devolves into spaghetti code very quickly and you begin spending tons of time shoehorning the slightest change in.

I can't comment on Lite-C since I never used it.

I might be asking for too much, but for example 3DGS has some ready made templates, wich helped me getting the hang of it. As fas as I tried, RF1 doesn't.

In RF1, the system is even easier to start out with than the 3DGS templates, IMO, though you pay for that with flexibility. That is what is planned for RF2 though - a very similar system to the templates in 3DGS.

The graphics question, I think it's solved, OGRE seems to be nice. btw are you using BSP for level geometry?

No, we are going to use a custom level format and Octtree. We have not decided yet whether to do the levels as XML or have them as Python scripts, which would open a lot of flexibility in levels (level specific scripted entities, complex particle systems without a ton of custom level parsing code, etc), but we would pay for it in loading time very slightly as well as with a security risk of people being able to execute whatever code they want by having you open a level.

Maybe I just need time, but that right there was the easiest engine I have ever used. If possible, try to get a little inspiration for it on RF2. Unless that severy postpones the release.

I worked with 3DGS for years, and much of its design has indeed inspired parts of RF2. It did many things very badly but did some things better than any other engine I had tried - namely the integration between scripting and the level editor, the templates, the flexible scripting (up to a point, which RF2 takes much much further), and the event system.

It's already far enough :\

Yes, it is. With the contest I hope to push it out more quickly than it has been. There have been nearly 75 major code changes checked into SVN in the last month alone, so it is definitely picking up.

[firzen]

Oh yes, the event system. RF seems to have a similar system, where you put PlayerStart and PlayerSetup. But those are entities. Have you considered actually going like 3DGS, you put the model in the level and then you assign whatever action you want it to have?

When you mean the templates in RF are easier, do you mean that menu, the starting gun and all that?
Btw, is the menu always in any level I make?

So I might have a little surprise and a flashback when I pickup RF2? Neat!

Thanks for your answer. Did you know that 3DGS now uses ABT instead of BSP?

FirZen

[AndyCR]

Oh yes, the event system. RF seems to have a similar system, where you put PlayerStart and PlayerSetup. But those are entities.

Sorry, when I said event system, I meant the system where every action has an event function, where it processes different types of events differently.

Have you considered actually going like 3DGS, you put the model in the level and then you assign whatever action you want it to have?

That's kind of how it works in RF2, except that you place an entity and then assign whatever model to it.

When you mean the templates in RF are easier, do you mean that menu, the starting gun and all that?

I mean that with RF you don't even have to select a template set; you add a hollow cube, you add a playersetup, add a playerstart and you're done.

Btw, is the menu always in any level I make?

? Not sure what you mean.

So I might have a little surprise and a flashback when I pickup RF2? Neat!

Yes, you will. It's by no means exactly like 3DGS, but it's a lot like a blend of a more modern 3DGS and a more modern RF which can still behave like RF.

Did you know that 3DGS now uses ABT instead of BSP?

No, I didn't know that.

[Juutis]

Btw, is the menu always in any level I make?

The menu is customizable. See Menu System in the manual for more info.

To disable the character selection menu you have to modify RealityFactory.ini. Most of the customizations to RF are made through the many .ini files. In RealityFactory.ini there should be lines

Code: Select all

UseCharSelect= true/false
UseNameSelect= true/false

Set both to false.

[firzen]

Thanks for that. In development process those menu screens are not really needed...

So in your action assignment system, talking in 3DGS, you first set the behaviour and then the model?

as for the templates, yes I noticed that. But imagine I don't want a shooter. Just a simple maze/clicking puzzle. However, I have no scripting knowledge, as I am just starting out. The template system 3DGS uses assigns a main script to a level with all the preset scripts there. You know, in the Map Proprieties window if I still remember correcty.

I'm kinda getting th hang of RF. I think all the cut blocks will cluster the level a little. Maybe you should optimize the level layout by CSG Subtract, wich allows you to remove the cut block. However it kinda screws up on block number when using more complicated methods... Are you keeping the cut method from RF?

Thanks for your replies.
FirZen

[zany_001]

Funny you mention this. They once had RF in the list of engines they compare gamestudio with but with pretty outdated specs. I sent them a request to update the comparison table with the current state of RF. Shortly after that they completely removed RF from the table. *LOL*


RF2 won't use the same editor as RF. I'm even working on a new editor for RF at the moment .

lol wonder why....scared RF is too good...do they compare it to GEs like OGRE and irrlicht and Quake and etc.?

[ArKanuS]

lol wonder why....scared RF is too good...do they compare it to GEs like OGRE and irrlicht and Quake and etc.?

Lol they are really scared that RF will beat them in scripting power..
Probably the worst scripting in an engine would be the FPS Creator by TheGameCreatos lol, their scripts are so bad that they only just released a headshot function and they have really bad AI scripting, the entities can't see each other, only the player and they can see you through a wall!

3DGS is only perhaps more popular than RF because it has a more user-friendly system.

[paradoxnj]

do they compare it to GEs like OGRE and irrlicht

Ogre and Irrlicht are rendering engines. They do not contain any game logic in them whatsoever.

[ArKanuS]

do they compare it to GEs like OGRE and irrlicht

Ogre and Irrlicht are rendering engines. They do not contain any game logic in them whatsoever.

whoops