Pickles wrote:
And Steven8, go ahead and lock the thread, add the word moderator to your name and all of a sudden you're joe cop of the forum. Whatever!
Well, yeah, that's what a moderator is, Pickles, and with your history of explosive anger directed towards other members of the community, I felt it wise to try and nip it in the bud.
From Wikipedia's definition of a forum Moderator:
Among a moderator's enforcement duties is often the duty to stop flaming and keep the board a friendly place, free of personal insults
That was my intent. If you find it hard to converse without personal insult, then please don't post at all.
Pickles wrote:...but what's obvious is that you have no clue what next gen means. IT USES THE PROGRAMMABLE PIPELINE.
Destron wrote:If they're going to form a whole 2-hour panel meeting over what 6 seasoned game professionals think 'next-gen' is, then obviously there's some controversy over what the term means.
Pickles wrote:Yeah, new graphics card technology. There's nothing confusing about it at all.
I hope nobody minds my two cents, as one of the producers of What Makes A Next-Gen Game? What many people miss in regards to the phrase "next generation" is the context. When a developer talks about next gen, the phrase usually refers to technology. When consumers talk about next gen, the phrase usually means something completely different.
We produced the aforementioned panel discussion to highlight what consumers think makes next-gen games. Consumers don't care if your game uses a programmable pipeline or the latest shaders. Whether your game is powered by Unreal Engine 3 or CryENGINE2 is of no consequence to the consumer decision-making process. Technology is not what makes next-gen games. Consumers, however, do care about whether the games they buy and play deliver on their expectations. Since their expectations are constantly evolving, games that deliver on and surpass those expectations are next-gen games.
If, as developers, you continue to define the future of video games by what happens behind the scenes, you will always be in some respects disconnected from consumers, and you will always be stuck with the blockbuster model trying to develop the next big thing. Of course, if you're familiar with that model, you know that the drive for hits means lots of risk, lots of buyouts and bankruptcies, lots of overtime, lots of turnover, reduced quality of life, and less satisfying choices for consumers. In other words, the status quo will remain unchallenged and unchanged.
that was a bit ignorent on your behalf pickls. ypu come on to the RF forum and expect people to know what programable pipe line is when the reason people come to the forums is because they cant programe or dont understand, and i agree with morgan ramsay completely. no one has ever had trouble with Steven8 in the past few years this new .info site has been up, i cant comment from before as i wasnt around but it has only been you since or at least voiced their opnions on the forums as you have, i would of done exactly the same in steven8's position, however i would of reframed from using the word name calling to something more suitable to the situation.
IT USES THE PROGRAMMABLE PIPELINE. Do you know what that is?
Jet3D uses the programmable pipeline. That doesn't make it next gen. It's what you do with the programmable pipeline that makes it next gen. If you're going to post screens of your engine, you may want to get an artist to generate models for you that show off your engine's capabilities. To be honest, that looks like programmer art passed through Genesis 3D. They are not doing it any justice. BTW...Genesis does do shadow maps and per pixel lighting on actors (normal mapping). Was there a parallax map in those screens? If so, I could not tell....
Selling your engine is like a chef selling his food. If it looks good, someone will try it. If they like it, they will eat it up. If they don't, they will spit it out.
Whether your game is powered by Unreal Engine 3 or CryENGINE2 is of no consequence to the consumer decision-making process. Technology is not what makes next-gen games. Consumers, however, do care about whether the games they buy and play deliver on their expectations. Since their expectations are constantly evolving, games that deliver on and surpass those expectations are next-gen games.
I agree with most of what you said Morgan, but I don't agree entirely with this. Your average gamer would care about graphics as well. Reason is, if it looks good, someone will try it. Young people today would not go and by the original "Alone in the Dark" because when they look at the back of the box, they will see something horribly outdated. However, it is a wonderful game to play. They would miss out.
Hardcore gamers are the guys who buy SATA drives because they are faster, correctly align everything on their motherboard, constantly defrag their hard drives and buy the most expensive video card on the market so they can get the best visual quality in any game they play. In Pickles case, next-gen is about something that looks new (composite effects, normal mapping, per pixel lighting). The term next-gen can be used for just about anything. What Pickles is referring to is graphics. He could have said "next generation AI techniques" or "next generation sound design", but he meant graphics.
ok the pictures are not showing up for me however take a look at this
they are taken from milkshape, the lowest of lowest features not even lighting, yet from those small 3 screens it looks better, it is the art, if you came here to show the engine of then make a tech demo, if you came to show of the game well thats a very poor game for modern day games.
EDIT
screen shots removed guys, sorry, but no point in leaking pics from my game if they arnt going to be able to be used for what i intended them for to compare against pickls.
Last edited by scott on Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To all of you newbies. I've known Steven8 longer then all of you put together. Whatever I say to him is between me and him. He's a grown man he can take it.
I posted some screens, but since then removed them since your opinions have simple become a worthless argument over what next gen. Next Gen was first termed by the developers of Graphics cards. It has nothing to do with anything that goes on in the cpu at all.
>>Was there a parallax map in those screens? If so, I could not tell....<<
That's how 'bright' RF users are eh? You need movement to see paralax smart guy...
>>Genesis does do shadow maps and per pixel lighting on actors (normal mapping)<<
Don't try to tell me what RF does, I know RF better then the entire lot of you.
>>you come on to the RF forum and expect people to know what programable pipe line is<<
Do more reading then.
Whatever, what's obvious everytime I come here is that this is a forum of 90% little kids who can't even use RF and have no obvious interest in making games at all. I've seen no real improvements in RF or any real demos since I left to write this engine. Just a bunch of nobodies who are bettter suited to the Torque forums.
>>ill do some modeling if u want.<<
YES, I will pay for models. I purchase models. And obviously these models will be replaced since changing media with FreeVector takes seconds. You better PM me though. If all that doesn't get this thread locked I don't know what will.
well yea i can now see this getting lockd so why bother posting if you knew it was going to make that happen, admitantly some people are brighter than others but there is no need to insult them, you could of said something like thats becasue you cant see paralax mapping withot movment, thats not going to upset anyone but giving the impresion that some people are dumb is bad, and in any case you dont know how smart they are, its like a shuttle piolot may not be able to paint or know anything about paining but does that mean he is brighter than an artist?
the comment about steven8 being able to take it, this may be true but still does not make it right!
people to read beacue they dont know what programable pipleine is, well thats not fair, an artist dont have to know these things, how do i know, i went to a university open day for computer games design, nothing was mentiond there, watched how halo 3 was made, they had shaders and stuff but for the artist this was just variabls for different effects, like movment scale 1-10, brightness 1-10 nothing to do with programming, and reading more may help but some of us are just not interestead in that sort of thing, thats why we use RF because you dont need it, if we wanted to know what programable pipe line was and we read about it dont you think we would use an engine that supported this?
90% of little kids, i would say thats 1% of the forums, most of us are not KIDS we are young adults learning, dont know how old ou are, you say you known steven8 for some time, this leads me to belive your older than alot of us here as steven8 is old too compared to most of us.
and the comment about not serious about making games, would you tell a "retarded" person (not insulting, i mean as something wrong physicaly with that persons mental state) that he was trying his hardest to make a game yet because of his disability and cant produce the standard of work most people are looking that he is not serious about making games.
i for one am very serious, i am going to university in 2008, for 3 years, the course is something like £1200 a year and its not easy being able to get into university as you need grades from other qualifications to even get into them.
and lastly, you come here saying this is the first game made with the engine, meaning to me that its the game your trying to promote not the engine and it tunred out it was the engine and a thread about your engine was locked not that long ago, so a double post then.
make a tech demo, get a good webhost, show ur engine instead of giving people excuses to degrade it and then we can truely comment on what we think, so far its all been low polly, does that mean it can only handle low polly, i doubt it very much so show us the high poly great texturing real time effects in a video. a tech demo isnt even a game its a set of features to show of the engine, take a look at most engines and then compare them to yours.
My 5 year old girl has more copon then you. go get a life.
You post on an open source forum for a program we need to pay to have.
most of us are here becase its free.
What you are doing is bad for you. Calling people names and ranting on is not the way to get sales.
You call one person here a name you call us all that name MATE.......
I will never open a post with your name on it. I will never download your program.
This site is about RF. if you want to advatise you games goto a indie site and do it there.
my rant is now over. So Pickles if you are going to reply to this post dont pis* me off as I dont want to get baned from here. Beter yet dont post find another forum with like minded people and heve a life.....................
some people may not be as smart as others, but that does not mean they are dumb. Obviously the people who say that others are dumb are always the dumb ones, because they don't make many friends with this attidude.
And if not many of us are too serious about this stuff, does that make us bad people? Most of the time the people who don't take thinghs too seriously are the better people. Also they don't snap that easily, because they are not that easily offended.
Are you serious with game development? If you really were serious, you should learn to communicate with people properly and without insulting them, because most of the time you are working in teams, and being rude helps noone.
Everyone can see the difficult, but only the wise can see the simple.
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Pickles wrote:
>>Was there a parallax map in those screens? If so, I could not tell....<<
That's how 'bright' RF users are eh? You need movement to see paralax smart guy...
I guess you need to take better screenshots.
Pickles wrote:
>>Genesis does do shadow maps and per pixel lighting on actors (normal mapping)<<
Don't try to tell me what RF does, I know RF better then the entire lot of you.
You may know RF..but I know Genesis. I've been using it since 1996. Genesis supports shadow maps (since 1996) and per-pixel lighting on actors via wxb1's normal mapping for actors modification. You should know who you are talking to before you make a statement like that. BTW...I also have been the project lead for Jet3D since 2001 and have been working in the industry since 2000. You want to talk graphics programming??? Let's do it smart-ass.
Pickles wrote:
>>you come on to the RF forum and expect people to know what programable pipe line is<<
Do more reading then.
You obviously don't know much about it either for you to say that those graphics you produced with it are "next-gen" graphics. You should learn how to use it before telling someone they should read about it.
Pickles wrote:
Whatever, what's obvious everytime I come here is that this is a forum of 90% little kids who can't even use RF and have no obvious interest in making games at all. I've seen no real improvements in RF or any real demos since I left to write this engine. Just a bunch of nobodies who are bettter suited to the Torque forums.
90% kids you say, but you are the one acting immature...
You came to a forum of aspiring game developers, posted some crappy ass screens of your "next-gen" engine and could not accept the criticism from people when they said the screens were of crap quality. When someone says something negative, your first reaction was "you don't know what you're talking about". Here I am making a living in the game industry and you still say "you don't know what you're talking about". Where do you work, 7-11? I work for one of the top 20 publishers in the game industry today.
Last edited by paradoxnj on Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't know why every time you post here, Dan, it seems to end in me having to lock the thread. I really regret this cause you have done so much good work on RF in the past ...
Locked
