Will there be another video game crash?

[paradoxnj]

Come to think of it...every Final Fantasy game from 7 on is about saving the planet from certain doom (fall of humanity).

Final Fantasy 7 = Stop Meteor from destroying Gaia (Earth).
Final Fantasy 8 = Stop Ultimecia from compressing time which will destroy life on Gaia.
Final Fantasy 9 = Stop Kuja from destroying Gaia using Trance
Final Fantasy 10 = Defeat Sin and stop him from destroying the world
Final Fantasy 11 = Online
Final Fantasy 12 = Stop one Kingdom from destroying another.

[MakerOfGames]

That's an interesting observation there paradoxnj. And I would like to further the point that is being made that is being misunderstood. Those of us who think games are carbon copies are not saying that games are exactly like each other to the point of copyright infringement, or anywhere near there. We are saying that there is a clear lack of creativity within the market.

Left 4 Dead, and Dead Rising are highly acclaimed games, but in reality it is nothing more than just another repeat of one aspect of the Resident Evil series. This is a carbon copy. Sure they are considered good games, but frankly I am not into games like that, and even if I was, there is nothing truly creative about these games except for how you kill the zombies, RE - alone with limited point of view, L4D is a group effort, and Dead Rising is just use whatever to kill zombies. All the zombies are still just zombies, no intelligent zombies, nothing special about any of the zombies. Goal is to just survive and end the reign/presence of zombies. I would like to see something more creative come from such an overused(but still undoubtedly attractive, zombies are cool) aspect of gaming. Make some intelligent, make them have more than just gnawing and using guns. Make some reassemble themselves, make them the good guys, make them anything but mindless people eaters to win points in my book. I am not saying that these are bad games, because I do think that they are examples of games that still hold a level of creativity and vision. It's just that the market is now being overrun by titles like these because RE4 is considered to be one of the best games ever made. Its a follow the leader story.

The FPS market is the same. There was Halo, and then there are Halo clones. When was the last time you saw an FPS game that had humans versus humans that wasn't based in WWII? There's the 2 modern warfare games and the one from the future. Other than that, are there really any other FPS games that don't have aliens vs humans and the humans being the defenders of the planet by playing the chosen one who can single handedly overturn millions of alien elites? I can't think of any, and even with Halo, I think it got its roots in the first Half-Life. The flood? They are like headcrabs but more possessive morphing their victim into a mutant. And again, what do head crabs and the flood do? They make zombies... I'm tired of zombies being in everything, make a new creature to be afraid of. The shegoths in Metroid Prime scared the ever loving daylights outta me. Not a zombie or a mutant.

I miss the days of cyborg ninja games, and robot games(Metal Arms Glitch In The System goes as one of my most favorite games EVER), pirate games not based on movies, inspired racing games(Beetle Adventure Racing, Mario Kart), car combat games etc... I want games things don't have to be based on space marines saving the planet, killing aliens because they are bad, survive the zombie hoard, live like a thug(GTA), racing simulation, WWII, another remake of the same franchise that is 10+years old, and medieval exploration or assassination. I am pretty sure that sums up all of the types of games that are currently being spewed into the market. It's sad to me that you can narrow all of today's games into these catagories, because its not much to choose from if you want anything else.

That's why some of us believe there is the strong possibility for a video game crash. Right now its in a pretty big recession. There's not even a game that anybody can difinitvely say they can't wait to play. At first it was Halo 2, Half-Life 2, Killzone, then Crysis. What game is it now that advertises itself as being the next big innovation that will break all the rules? I can't think of any either. It's just yay another sequel, or a game that's like that one I already played so I may like it.

[ardentcrest]

This is why I say long live Dizzy.

Dizzy and Zaks first appeared in "Dizzy, The Ultimate Cartoon Adventure" for the 48k Spectrum in June 1986. He was forgotten until March 1989, when Treasure Island Dizzy.

LONG LIVE DIZZY

http://www.yolkfolk.com/site/intro.php

Here is a list of Dizzy games.

- Dizzy goes to Hollywood
- Dizzy R Remake
- Dizzy R RMX
- Dizzy R Speed
- Dizzy Spinball 2
- Fruit Machine Dizzy
- Magic Maniax
- Magic Maniax 2
- Magic Maniax III
- Magic Maniax IV
- Pests of the Yolkfolk Village
- Yolkfolk vs. Yolkville
- Yolkfolk vs. Yolkville 2007
- Dizzy Caves
- Dizzy's Normal Day
- Stag Night Dizzy
- Lost Woods Dizzy (Remake)
- Dizzy & the Healing Potion
- Dizzy & the Mushroom Pie
- Dizzy and the Other Side (Act I only Demo)
- Adventure of Dizzy - Part 1
- Adventure of Dizzy - Part 2
- Arcade Dizzy (Teaser)
- Dizzy - Return to Spectrum (Teaser)
- Dizzy Spinball
- Who wants to be a Dizzy Millionaire? (Demo)
- Dizzy's Dream Home
- Excalibur Dizzy
- Lost Island Dizzy
- Lost Woods Dizzy
- Dizzy and the Curse of Spirit Island
- Dizzy and the God's Vengeance
- Dizzy Commandos
- Dizzy in the Pits
- Dizzy: The Ultimate Cartoon Adventure (Remake)
- Drunk Dizzy (Demo)
- Bubblefox's Dizzy RPG (Demo)
- Delta Dizzy (Beta)
- Dizzy & the Mysterious Pyramid
- Dizzy - Return to Katmandu
- Dizzy - The Next Generation
- Dizzy in Wonderland
- Dizzy Stars
- Hellbound Dizzy
- Dizzy goes Raving
- Spud's Quest (Dizzy clone)
- Volcano Island Dizzy
- Dizzy - A little Joke (Remake)
- Dizzy Z
- Logic Dizzy
- Adventureland Dizzy
- Dizzy's Greatest Adventure
- Muffy's Great Escape (Dizzy clone)
- Dizzy RPG
- Dizzy: The Lost Island
- Dizzy and the CrabApple
- Dizzy in the Forgotten Realm
- Dizzy: Legend of Zakeria
- Mystic Kingdom Dizzy
- Kwik Fruit
- Dizzy XIII - Dizzy Underground
- Panic Dizzy (Remake)
- Escape from Zaks' Dungeon
- Escape from Zaks' Dungeon Remix
- Jungleland Dizzy (Demo)
- Bubble Trouble Dizzy
- Diamond Mine Dizzy
- Dizzy Legends: The Lord of Darkness Ch. 1
- Dreamworld Dizzy
- Magic Star Dizzy
- Rail Road Dizzy
- Treasure Tomb Dizzy
- Winter World Dizzy
- Middle Earth Dizzy
- Dizzy short
- Fortnoks
- Lens
- Dizzy Downhill Slide (Original + PLUS versions)
- Dizzy YolkFolk Adventures
- Dizzy in the Grandpa incident
- Dizzy down the Pit (Flash Demo)
- Dizzy - King of the Yolk
- Alien Abduction Dizzy
- Dizzy Crushes His Enemies
- Dizzy Invaders
- The Trap
- Zaks' Dream
- Dizzy XX - Hell in Paradise Island (Demo)
- Disco Dizzy (Teaser)
- Dizzy & the Magic Wand
- Dizzy Newgrounds
- Dizzy Lives
- Dizzy the Prince (Flash Demo)
- Dizzy Forever
- Mini Dizzy
- One Button Dizzy
- Crystal Kingdom Dizzy
- Dizzy the Adventurer
- Dizzy: Prince of the Yolkfolk
- Dizzy: The Ultimate Cartoon Adventure
- Fantastic Dizzy (The Fantastic Adventures of Dizzy)
- Fantasy World Dizzy
- Magicland Dizzy
- Spellbound Dizzy
- Spellbound Dizzy - Lite Version
- Treasure Island Dizzy
- Bubble Dizzy
- Dizzy Down the Rapids
- Fast Food
- Go! Dizzy Go!
- Kwik Snax
- Panic Dizzy
- Christmas Dizzy
- Dizzy 3½: Into Magicland
- Dizzy: Crash Special Edition
- Easter Eggstravaganza
- Treasure Island Dizzy: Crash Special Edition
- Dreamworld Pogie
- Wonderland Dizzy
- Last Will Dizzy: The Last Adventure
- Dizzy - A little Joke
- Castle Island Dizzy
- Castle Island Dizzy 2
- Giddy 3 (Dizzy clone)
- Dizzy in Emerald City
- Scrambled Egg Dizzy
- Dizzy - Porn Mag adventure
- Massacre Land Dizzy
- Massacre Land Dizzy 2
- Arcanum Dizzy
- Platform Fever I - GoldenEgg (Demo)
- Platform Fever III + Dizzy Deathmatch
- Platform Fever IV - Wild West Dizzy (Demo)
- A very Dizzy Christmas
- Dizzy's bad day
- Dizzy 4k
- Treasure Island Dizzy PSP Remake
- Dizzy - Return to Magicland
- Dizzy X - Journey to Russia
- Dizzy Y - Return to Russia
- Dizzy: Searching for bugs in the land of KOA
- Dizzy - The Secret Land
- Dizzy and the Y2k Predicament
- The Dizzy Zone
- Home Island Dizzy
- Dizzy XP - Part 1
- Dizzy New
- Dizzy A
- Dizzy B
- Dizzy Warehouse
- Dizzy 3½: Into Magicland (DizzyAGE Remake)
- Dizzy and the Emerald Eye
- Dizzy and the Other Side
- Dizzy Diamonds (Demo)
- Dizzy Trivia 2007
- Dizzy Trivia 2008
- Dizzy Who: Into The Tardis - Pt. 1
- Dizzy: Prince of the Yolkfolk (DizzyAGE Remake)
- Dizzy: The Ultimate Cartoon Adventure (DizzyAGE Remake)
- Dizzy: The Ultimate Cartoon Adventure (TGF Demo Remake)
- Fantasy World Dizzy (DizzyAGE Remake)
- Magicland Dizzy (DizzyAGE Remake)
- Treasure Island Dizzy (DizzyAGE Remake)

Let see someone do this with One game in RF or any other 3d engine, and last as long as dizzy has.

[GMer]

Boy, Dizzy is a big star, isn't he?
Maker of Games fleshed out my points. (Thank you Maker of Games, I have a bit of a PEBKAM- Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Mind )

[MakerOfGames]

I'm glad I was able to cover your points GMer. That was my standpoint on the situation, which it seems we stand on the same spot then. I hope this can clear up the misunderstandings within this thread and maybe bring to light the trend of the industry. I for one am tired of this trend and thus am going for something completely new for my game. The whole backbone of the game will be familiar with FPS games, but contain a story and situation that has never before been showcased in a game to this date to my knowledge. I have a vague idea on the story now, but I am going to cut out all of the trite ideas that I myself have favored. It's time for something new. Also, it may be to the point that an original story or concept these days can throw you head first into the industry as people always investigate something that is new or different.

[ardentcrest]

like I've always said "General Discussions" is just for Topics on Sex, Drugs and Rock 'N' Roll.

[GMer]

I hope your game turns out well, Maker of Games.
Why hasn't any company been expiramenting with 3-d glasses and FPS? That would be awesome!
For example:
Player walks down hallway, guy comes out of door at end and shoots missle. Missle goes towards the screen, making the guy at the keyboard get into the experience, and try to dodge it more. Increase in reflexes!
That would be awesome, like cookies and orange juice!

[GMer]

Look what I have found...
Carmine's Armor (Gears of War-2008-video game)

Here is a picture of Carmine in his COG armor in Gears of War.

253.jpg (9.44 KiB) Viewed 1869 times

Now look at the armor in this picture (Final Fantasy: Spirits Within - 2001 - movie)

Here is a screen shot of the 2001 Final Fantasy Movie (look at the armor)

fab14b5db5385e4133387b5cb12ffe0d67a28907006fbf8601e6db3a5c39f876eb2111b578ea1a5b33e8e5ca2d9051914e62dcb7edff13f63ee08981a3e244d1cfb4212f5830a752316b1915462.jpeg (24.44 KiB) Viewed 1868 times

I think the developers of Gears of War were a little influenced by that movie, don't you?

[MakerOfGames]

Wow, to me there is only an extremely small difference between the armors. That is a case in point for the lack on inspiration in the industry. Even at examination they look the same!!!

[GMer]

I'm suprised that Square hasn't noticed. Maybe they are making so much money on the Final Fantasy Series (I lost track of how many there are) , they don't care is someone leeches their ideas or not.

[Destron]

I'm suprised that Square hasn't noticed. Maybe they are making so much money on the Final Fantasy Series (I lost track of how many there are) , they don't care is someone leeches their ideas or not.

I don't think you can sue somebody because they have similar armor on one character in their game to the one in your movie.

Also, do you have a problem with Gears of War? Saying that it has a generic setting or story is one thing, but this is just petty.

[GMer]

No, I don't have a problem with Gears of War (#2 is bloodtacular the giant worm was a good idea)
Just that this was an example I found of games today beginning to draw on the previous games (or the media related to the games,
in this case.), this just shows that there is somewhat of a "lack on inspiration in the industry" of games.
A company can sue someone on those grounds, just it would probably be defined as a frivolous lawsuit, and be a waste of time and money,
unless that character brings in oodles of $ to the company.
And Destron, saying "this is petty" could offend some people (I wouldn't be though, I take criticism very lightly), you could try saying instead"this is going a little overboard" or "nobody has ever heard of the movie anyway, who would notice?", Okay?

[Jay]

I once read something about the game industry being 'evulitionary' instead of 'revolutionary'. What this means is that there aren't revolutions (totally new games) in the game industry, instead the games envolve continously, not in jumps. Small adjustments are made, instead of big ones.

You see, if you want to make a game which is really innovative, you first have to all the ideas. But actually this is the easy part. For example, just advancing further in graphics (also known as 'writing a new engine') is a big chunk of work and takes much ressources from a game company (ressources = people, time, money). Writing a totally new engine needs HUGE amounts of ressources, which is why game companies usually try to invent an engine once and then use it for various titles. Maybe they envolve it a bit to make it a bit better, but they won't build it up from scratch if it's not at least a few years old.

If you really want a game that has dozens of new features, it would need many times the ressources needed for a game which follows the old lines of thinking, but adds some new features or changes them in an interesting way.
All for a game which, in the end, might not even be as popular as other games

A few years back, a german game developing studio called Innonics made a game called 'Wiggles' which was about leading a dwarf clan (The Wiggles) through the underworld to find and capture Odins dog Fenris. It was very innovative in game play, for example you could (no, you had to) alter the game world by digging caves and tunnels. Each Wiggle had their own personality and own experience points in ~20 fields of knowlegde. When they had enough experience, they could invent new thinghs to carry (They all had inventories) and new buildings to build. The game had a big tech-tree and one of the ways to defeat Fenris involved making booze at the laboratory (a building at the end of the tech-tree) and make Fenris drink it until he fell over at the way to the closet. Wiggles also had to sleep, eat, and feel good. For this you could build tents, fireplaces, and then in higher stages of technology you also had to build buildings for energ, like steam-machines....

I could go on forever because there are SO many cool things in the game. Also, the graphics were quite detailed for that time. It reached top marks in many game testing magazines. The game was very good at making you feel like the 'father' (or 'mother') of all the Wiggles.

And you know what? Innonics went bankrupt after that title. Obviously it was too costy to produce and at the same time not many people buid it. Maybe a bit too innovative, or too little luck.
Then again, a title called 'Sims' (2000) was not as detailed as 'Wiggles' (2001) when it came to simulating the persons and had poorer graphics. But somehow it was more succesfull. While games like 'The Settlers' seem to only live of their name. ("Settlers II" was the best of them all, after that the games were only got worse)

A game which set a good example in my opinion was 'Age of Mythology'. It was good old Age of Empires again, BUT with gods, mythical creatures, and heroes. I was suprised at just how GOOD the game was when i first played it. It wasn't a completely new game, but it was MUCH more fun than Age of Empires I+II (I always found them a bit dull).

One thing that caused me to loose interest in playing Zelda: Majoras Mask, was that it used exactly the same names for thinghs like Ocarina of Time, even for people that were clearly not the same people as in OoT. It was dull and annoying.

Another thing, however, is Final Fantasy. Do you know why the game is called Final Fantasy?
Taken from http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/332:

Final Fantasy was made in 1987 by Hironubu Sakaguchi and was actually intended as a farewell "present" to Square Co. Ltd. Sakaguchi felt that the gaming world was going in circles and that no-one wanted to take any chances with a new type of game. So he decided to quit the business and start a new career doing something completely different, maybe becoming a fisherman. But before he could do this he needed to prove to both himself and the rest of the world that the age of groundbreaking games was not over. He sat down and worked over a long period in secret on his last project ever. His last dream. His Final Fantasy. And so the name was created. Final Fantasy was a single man's last wish for proving that new things could still be made. And so far every single FF game has improved the gaming world in ways no-one could imagine. Every game has introduced something new in terms of graphics, gameplay, voices and music, engine - you name it. Final Fantasy has always been the first to go in new directions. And that is how it should be. The moment Hironubu Sakaguchi feels the games are getting repetitive he is going to quit and become a fisherman.

But i also agree that many Final Fantasy games are about generally the same thinghs. 4 and 5 were about retrieving some crystals of the elements / protecting them from the bad guy who wants to take it for himself. (No idea what the newer ones are about but i think some of them are about the same thing)
But the way you learned magic in Final Fantasy 6 was very interesting. I also loved the part in Final Fantasy 4 with the 'way to the moon'. And for fans of the series i certainly recommend the game 'Final Fantasy: Endless Nova' which is a fan-made game and really can compare to the other Final Fnatasy games i have played.

However, a game must draw from other games. I don't say it should be clone, but you just cannot make something totally new. Like with movies - films that go in totally new directions don't make money most of the time. First, they cost too much and second, they have problems establishing a fan base as most people seem to be kind of 'afraid' of those new things. At least more sceptical than towards others. Every company has to make money, or they can't pay their employees and can't make new investions (=games). And this is why it goes in small steps. It goes forwards, but it goes slowly. Cause every new step is part of the same old journey.

[paradoxnj]

That is not true about Final Fantasy. The game is called Final Fantasy because Square was in financial trouble and that game was it's last hope of staying afloat. They not only needed a hit to stay in business...they needed a mega hit. If it failed, it would be the final game Square made.

In the mid 1980s, Square entered the Japanese video game industry with a string of simple RPGs, racing games, and platformers for Nintendo's Famicom Disk System. In 1987, Square designer Hironobu Sakaguchi began work on a new fantasy role-playing game for the cartridge-based Famicom, inspired in part by Enix's popular Dragon Quest. As Sakaguchi planned to retire after completing the project, it was named Final Fantasy.[2][46] Despite Sakaguchi's explanation, the name of the game has also been attributed by various sources to the company's hopes that the project would solve its financial troubles.[4] Final Fantasy indeed reversed Square's lagging fortunes, and it became the company's flagship franchise.[1][2]

Following the success of the first game, Square immediately developed a second installment. Unlike a typical sequel, Final Fantasy II features a world bearing only thematic similarities to its predecessor. Some of the gameplay elements, such as the character advancement system, were overhauled. This approach has continued throughout the series; each major Final Fantasy game features a new setting, cast of characters, and battle system.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/vgs/un ... antasy_hs/

[Jay]

Hm... so abandonia lied... i thought they would take care about what people say in their articles. But the reason you said also makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.