LowMan Project :: re-designing the scripted player...

Post by **federico** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:46 pm

I'm working on a new design for the scripted player. RF is becoming older quickly so I think that everyone has to put the focus on an aspect of the development familiar to him (Zhen for the level design, Nout for the physics, Wbx1 for the graphics, QoD general managing and new features like network) before the end of the project. I'm saying this not to be pessimistic, but thinking that RF can be the most powerful framework for rapid prototyping, BUT having this features. So, for my part, I'll try to work on advanced testing and scripting and i want to put all my effort to create a scripted player usable in a adventure game with stealth elements. Now, after the demos I want to make THE GAME (yes, all capitals

), and I'll call for the help of the others when it will be the right time.
... so, about the scripted player, the character and the control system will play a central role. I want to achieve some result:

1. Fluid movements. one move at time no move conflicts (no minus than a step...)

2. More look around flexibility. More third person interaction. Firing and clicking (thanks to the new 2d / 3d Nout features)

3. Better Jump system.

4. More level interaction. Ladders, Duck under an obstacle, Climbing a pipe, jump/climb a crate (tomb rider style?).

5. Open system. Vehicles (a monocycle for my character?)

1, 2 and 3 are in progress. 4 is in an early stage: the pawn can climb the ladder, I've adder a ZoneCheck command to read the area attribute, but I need to define a way in which the character can understand the start and the end of the ladder. 5 is in hold waiting the dev of the physic (we have some trouble here, but I'm ready to start again, Nout!

...).
My actual Character is LowMan, grabbed from the Studio Max Version. I've turn it in a biped and I'm mixing several animation set.

Check the Video #1 here!
http://realitychess.altervista.org/download/lowman.htm

Post by **federico** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:23 am

New Video #2 !!!
http://realitychess.altervista.org/download/lowman.htm

Spyrewolf · Post by **Spyrewolf** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:20 am

this sounds really cool federico!
A game?! WOW I can't wait

i had something in mind myself, the level of interaction your suggesting sound cool and im sure RF is capable of all these thing you've suggested.

i can't see the video's here at work but will check'em out at home.

sounds good, and going by your scripting abilities im sure this will be amazing as per usual, keep us posted

jump/climb a crate (tomb rider style?).

How about push and pull a crate as well, this is really cool for puzzle solving elements

Post by **federico** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:12 am

yeah, puling a crate!

good idea! it won't be so difficult.

So I can add another purpose:

6. Having a world interaction "snapped to the ideal grid". The current limit of RF creating a puzzle/platform game is that. the no minus than a step approach is though to have world that can be ideally (with a reasonable degree of design freedom) measured in player step: 1 unit = 1 step for example.

fps · Post by **fps** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:01 pm

that does sound really cool, i have some ideas that i think would help.

what about grabbing onto things above the players head like pipes and ziplines, and grabbing onto ledges to move around an obstical. like in splinter cell.

Reloading in third person.

Player to pawn interaction, like grabing a carector and using thaem as a human shield.

climbing ropes.

built in (optional,toggeled,or triggered) lockon system.

The ability the spawn pickups of droped weapons.

the ability to trigger spawing a scripted pawn from the player.

a simple sword shield combat system. like zelda.

The ability to define and use weapons with more varriations. (full auto, burst, semi auto, charge time before fire, charge for more damage or different projectile, penatrating bullets, shotgun effect, arrows stay where they hit, multiple fire and idle animations, 1st person hit and die animations and sounds, multiple fire sounds and effects, multiple projectile impact sounds and effects, define different sounds for key reload, ect...)

and finally i really think that we need some sort of system where the players torso is animated and controlled (in some cases like shooting while moving or strafing) independently from the the players legs.

Thanks,
Fps

Nout · Post by **Nout** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:44 pm

Frederico,

I'm back from a lot of traveling....
"fall though the floor" is a big issue which I have no solution for. I've posted it on Tokamak forum, but the replies are very slow and limited. Development is ongoing, but it's unclear what, when etc...

So I started to build in ODE. Till now, I'm able to get an object inserted and to control it by ODE physics, but the collission detection is not yet working. This will always be a pain pojn t as RF is using it's own collision routines, and the physics use other collision routines. It would be fatser and more logical to just have 1 common collision detection system.

For the scripted player, in fact it would be better to directly make a player that can handle both, mouse or keyboard commands, but also commands coming from the physics engine.

RF is getting older fast and the frame rates will start to become a big issue when adding more complex physics etc... I'm therefor also considereing if we should not better swap to a newer engine, like ORGE and build a new RF-like shell around it.

Post by **federico** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:56 am

ehy guys! are you spamming my scripted player topic?

I have to admit that I was the one who start this trend... but please move this discussion elsewhere or see the new scripted player video

!
http://realitychess.altervista.org/download/lowman.htm

@ FPS
... don't ask me the impossible. keep your request at my capability level and at the development stage. I'm scripting the player movements, don't ask me a super-bazooka autotargetting aiming warmth-seeking nuclear explosion system!

Post by **AndyCR** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:18 pm

sorry that was really rude of us! split into general topics.

the scripted player looks really great!! (sorry i didnt comment before, I couldnt get the video to play)

fps · Post by **fps** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:25 pm

sorry,

The scriped player sounds really good so far.
Keep up the good work.

Thanks,
Fps

P.s.
I am working on a bazooka with guided rockets, and a seperate rocket launcher with a autotarget aiming, lock on target, pawn-seeking scripted rockets that are detonated by the player or on impact, and yet another scripted weapon that i call the remote triggered tactical thermal nuclear suitcase bomb.
Just so you know that you were pretty close.

hike1 · Post by **hike1** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:51 pm

Nice video, Federico, I may change my mind about not doing 3rd person, my problem is putting 8 weapons in the 3rd person player's hands, a lot of work.

Post by **federico** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:29 pm

@ hike
I'm quite confident to have the weapon functioning in 3rd person. Probably I Have not passed trought your past troubes. I think that the highlevel AttachtoActor command can be helpful attaching the weapons correctly.

the new ladder animation is quite ok. When you are on a ladder area and the ladder area isn'tdetected more (a low-lvel command I've added), then an end laddr animation occurs and the pawn makes the last ladder climbing. The system is quite difficult to achieve 'cause the ladder area has to be extended the ladder height minus the pawn height or the pawn clims OVER the ladder (like now happens for the standard player climbing..), so I have to create a brush temlate to identify the correct distances. I'll post anther video soon...

Nout · Post by **Nout** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:21 pm

Looked to your video's and they all look great !

Post by **federico** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:38 pm

Thanks Nout!

Looking at CPlayer.cpp, I think that I can modify the Player Code, but is there any way to have something like a low-level Order in C++?...

New Video #3 !!!
Ladder Test / Climb / Jump / End of the Ladder detection / Ladder Alignement..
http://realitychess.altervista.org/download/lowman.htm

Actually requires some addictive work to have stable behaviour...

Nout · Post by **Nout** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:01 pm

The 3rd Video is fantastic !

For Lowlevel orders: It's not really of RF to write lowlevel scripts inside RF... The pawn script commands are read by an interpreter and the interpreter calls the corresponding C++ rotuines that define the low level command. What is needed if however not that far away from scripting...

If you write something in lowlevel commands, there are 2 ways to convert it + add it into RF:

1) or as 1 pawn command: This is quite easy. Basically it means that all pawn low level calls are copied into 1 long piece of code and all overhead of reading and passing script parameters is removed.
Advantage: This is quite easy and fast to code
You can call the script as a normal pawn command. So you also can ommit it. It's not part iof the fixed code.
Disadvantage: It's less optimize then full code + you need to call it as 1 pawn command

2) or to integrate it into the original RF code (not as a pawn command but as real fixed code): Depending on what you are writing, this can be more complex + affect the normal functions of RF

I suggest we start with the first option.

Post by **federico** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:17 am

the lowman project isn't death. I'm looking for another pawn model, because that cartoon model is nice but hasn't the correct body proportions so it would be a pain to switch that skeleton on another body. So I'm looking for another 3ds max biped.
I have tried the UDN biped and the half-life 1 biped, any other suggest?