RF 2 Discussion

MakerOfGames · Post by **MakerOfGames** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:55 pm

What are hieght and normal maps? And how do you create them? I dont know anything about advanced texturing.

Post by **AndyCR** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:03 pm

normal and height maps contain, instead of the texture, values which tell the engine how high or low any particular pixel of the texture is. height maps and normal maps are simply two different ways of doing this. in rf2, height maps can be sub stituted for normal maps; in rf1, they cannot. height maps store this information by having the highest point be white, and the lowest point black, and anything inbetween blended inbetween those (so light grey would be higher than dark grey. (rf1 is an exception to this rule; in rf1, black is highest and white is lowest.) with normal maps, the information is stored by lights of one of each of three colors; red, green, and blue, being shone on a 3d surface from 3 different directions; x, y, and z respectively. either way, the engine combines the height/normal map's height information with the texture map's color information to do one of two things; normal mapping or parallax mapping (which is an extension of normal mapping.)

height maps can be made by desaturating (black-and-whiting) the image, then messing with it until the correct values are in the correct spots. example of a height map:

http://members.shaw.ca/jimht03/images/h ... ample1.jpg

normal maps are usually created by making a very high-poly version of the model the normal map will be applied to, and using a program which then takes the high poly model and it's uv mapping information and creates a normal map from it. they can also be created from the texture map from something like the gimp normal map filter, though i dont think the results are quite as spectatular then. as an example, off the top of my head, unreal engine 3's characters are about 7,000 polygons each, but the models used to generate the normal maps for those characters are millions of polygons. the extra detail does not to my knowledge seriously affect the framerate any more than generating it from a 7,500 polygon model, so the more detail the better. example of a normal map:

http://www.bitmanagement.de/developer/c ... mpDOT3.jpg

in this image, you see three techniques: one, the normal texture ("diffuse") map without any height information, two, normal mapping, utilizing both the texture map and a height map, and three, parallax mapping, which does the same as 2 but also adds texture coordinate displacement, giving the illusion that the bricks are real. parallax mapping is also known as virtual displacement mapping; one of the key features of the upcoming unreal tournament 2007. rf2 supports all three.

http://www.freewebs.com/andycr/comparison.JPG

ardentcrest · Post by **ardentcrest** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:20 pm

AndyCR if you are still having problems with your 2D try this link

http://www.freewebs.com/bcxgl/index.htm If for Magic 2d for irr

Try these links for screen shots of it

http://www.freewebs.com/bcxgl/screenshots.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/bcxgl/screenshots2.htm

hope these help or give you some new ideas

P.S. what % of RF2 is done 10% 20% 99%

Post by **AndyCR** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:42 pm

thanks for the link!

id say... oh, about 1% - 2%. RF is complex; it will take awhile, especially until I have someone helping out.

I have to leave tomorrow for another trip. I should be back in 3 weeks, if not sooner.

jonas · Post by **jonas** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:15 am

In making an engine like realityfactory your work is never done. Even when he makes a first release, he might only be 10% done.

Again AndyCr I would like to help in anyway.

ardentcrest · Post by **ardentcrest** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:44 pm

We now know what AndyCr is doing, and we know it is going ahead.

jonas said he would help, GOD yes.......

While AndyCR is doing the main framework for RF2, We still need the world building programs, and like. there must be one or two spare c++'ers out there.

We need modellers we need artists (Tabulanis, Your work is just great,see viewtopic.php?t=763)

the more on board the better, the quicker the more community proud RF2 will be.

But, This old man Knows nothing (no art, no models, no C++) But konws a good thing when he see's it. AndyCR Needs Help, or we'll end up with nothing.

To AndyCr....

INFO INFO INFO......

This is your project, You have asked for help..

ie.

a) What model format ( can we reuse or do we need new plugins/converters, for our programmes)

b) What map,Worlds, levels format ( can we reuse or do we need new plugins/converters, for our programmes)

c) Where do you need help. ie Converting old rf scripting to the new rf2

Adding playing AVI files which IRR can't
unless you use MAGIC2D.

The list can go on.

This is yours AndyCR Tell us what you need,

delegate.........

You have a picture in your mind, what RF2 sould be. Give it to us.

Lets get the 1 to 2% up to 50 to 80% in the next 5 to ( 80 )

weeks.

Sorry about the rant. Have a good trip A'RC

It's almost 12 midnight here in Ireland so it must be The time moust of you in the US of A get home From work and look at the new posts on this site..

GIVE YOUR HELP, PLEDGE YORE HELP.

THE IS THE RF2 TELETHON GIVE GENEROUSLY

GD1 · Post by **GD1** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:58 pm

like i've said before, i'm more than willing to help. I've actually just now started at level design for another project. In my spare time i'll see what i can throw together for you guys as far as a tech-demo level goes. This shouldn't be too hard since the methods for level creation between the engine i'm working with and RF2 seem very similar. I'm not much of an artist, but i'll help out where i can.

wackedoutbiker · Post by **wackedoutbiker** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:53 pm

I believe we should have Parallax mapping implemented in RF, as well as the scripted weapons systems. A customized player would be cool, too.

Right now, I'm working on a 2D game, but one day hope to create a full-3D version of it.

BTW, what's changed with RF1?

GD1 · Post by **GD1** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:11 pm

I think andy said he'd be putting in shaders. and since Parrallax mapping is pretty much the new thing i'm sure that will be supported with or without shaders. He's got some great ideas, i'm really anxious to see how this turns out.

we've had a lot of changes to RF1 too, physics is supported. Normal mapping for world geometry is on the way. lots of improvements and bugfixes. we got stencil shadows. the list goes on.

n321 · Post by **n321** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Hey as for a world builder gtk radiant 1.5 and q3map2 are now opensource!!! You could alter radiant to work with RF entitys and map format and such and you could alter q3map2 to compile the type of bsp that andy cr is planning on using!

I would suggest using a Q3 based bsp and jus altering it a bit to get arroun coppyright laws! It would be the easyest because if you do it right it is possible to just put a Q4 map directly into an engine with a q3 map format! (you need to alter the code a bit.) Search the XreaL engine! It is a q3 engine that compiles Q4 maps into its map format! Stick with a normal map format so you can use an editor like radiant or hammer or quark or whatever you want! Its all opensource you dont need your own special world builder! like rfpro! Jut make the engine framework and let the userers find an editor they like! Personally i hated editors like rf edit and quark and hammer but when i used rf I couldnt use radiant because to the map formats!

If you made a bsp compiler that compiles a .map into your special bsp format users can use any editor they want!

jonas · Post by **jonas** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:55 am

I'm a c++'er and a 3d modeller. I don't know for sure but I'll bet andyCr will try and use the act format. Irrlicht already has most of the major formats already inbeded into it.
@AndyCr If there are any side application you would like built let me know and I'll start working on them.

SithMaster · Post by **SithMaster** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:35 am

i have some what decent modelling skills though not much free time.

the main thing lacking in rf for me was multiplayer support. i really wanted a deathmatch and co-op support.

i currently have a rocket launcher in the works its almost done heres a pick and its currently at 534 polys.

once its done i will be posting it on the forum for all to use.

ardentcrest · Post by **ardentcrest** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:06 pm

Hay Sith youdouble posting with you good looking rocket launcher

(2WW type i think), not bad...

AndyCR Has been back posting, (Sat And Sun.) no posts here, Maybe soon.

Maybe he will give more info on what he is doing and what he needs help with.

A'CR, pepole want to help look at the last posts, DELEGATE..................

hope you are having a great trip.

NOW GET BACK TO RF2

Post by **AndyCR** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:57 am

just got back from a trip a few minutes ago, give me a tiny bit to settle in... those posts were made from a public pc and a hotel.

SithMaster · Post by **SithMaster** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:30 pm

i didnt consider it double posting. i posted here to ask if anyone wanted to use it when done for the rf2 demo or the completed version. the one in modlers corner was to ask a question. though it is posting the same thing so i dont know.

so when do i get my souvenir?