MakerOfGames Game Thread [*56K WARNING*]

[MakerOfGames]

Game Plan Update:

Upon deliberation with some of my friends who are helping me design my game I have decided to NOT cell shade my game. A friend pointed out that by taking the easy way out 9 times out of 10 leads to disaster and taking the hard road gets results. So I will take the harder road and spend time making my game realistic looking. It is what I invisioned from the start anyhow.

Just one more thing to note about development right now is that I am suffering from using trueSpace3.2 and gameSpace lite. tS 3.2 has a terrible UV mapping system and the plug ins that acctually let you see the UV map dont let you adjust it to make it useable because 99.9% of the time the UV map isnt inside its clipping box. I tried using lithunrap but that only saves to trueSpace 1 objects that then cannot be anything but flat shaded in tS3.2 gSlite and even Lithunrap. gS lite has a better UV mapping system and I will have to switch my model to the limited gS. gS limits scene polygons to 650 becasue of an odd glitch, it supposed to be 5000 I think. Anyway, its a good thing my model is supposed to be chopped up because otherwise I would be suffering more. Also, when using tS 3.2 I modeled the character backwards beacuse the XY units are inversed and I thought modeling like I did in blender and gS lite would make it right. So, right now my models a big mess that needs a lot of work before I can make progress.
And one more note is I havent been able to work on the character for 2 days now. I hope to find time to work on it soon.

This acctually isnt too bad. A few hours of work should fix everything and get me to a point where I can start work again on the character. This ruff patch hasnt put me down even though it might sound like a nightmare to others. I guess I was half expecting somthing like this would happen!

-MoG-

[steven8]

Amen to the TS3.2 UV mapping system. It's why I stopped messing with it.

I don't blame you wanting to go with the realistic look for your game. In the end, you have to be happy with what you produce. Not just settle.

I always want my stuff to look like Quake (Any version, but mostly 2)

Always expect the unexpected!!

[Juutis]

Oh dont worry, I wont make you write my scripts! I just need your expertise. What I need help wise is I would need you to help me think of the best way to create, lets say, my inventory and then I would code the script and you would help me when I cant get the code to work. Does that sound good? And just let me know at anytime if I end up asking too much of you. Ok? Don't be afraid to say I can't help you even though you already volunteered. As long as we keep good communication about what we can and can't do we should not have any problems and we'll be fine. The last thing I would want to do is shove my work onto you. I am looking forward to working with you!

That sounds excellent! I'm looking forward to this too and I totally agree in the communication thing.
And don't you worry, I will let you know if I can't or don't want to work with you anymore.

When are you planning to start the scripting part ?

[MakerOfGames]

@ Juutis:
I plan to start the scripting part when I have a weapon or two and a finished player. I hope that will be soon, but that might not be untill end of August or later. I know you have mentioned starting back into your final and hardest year of school. I will try my hardest to start the player scripting ASAP. If all esle fails, I can code it before everything else is done. So how about if Im not in a good postion in 1 and a half weeks, we can start devising it with without having the digital peices to back it up. The hardest part I think to complete will be making the hands and inventory system work together. Everything esle will be simple scripting.

About my graphics:
Yeah I am hoping to just get some good looking visuals. I guess I will shoot for the original halo/ HL 1. They are good looking games. Wow I believe all the screens from this image at http://leathal621.tripod.com/halo_shizzle/halo_3.jpg are all screens from Halo before the first one. When it was still under a codename (Blam?) and was to be a pc/mac game.
This next image is from http://www.ebgames.com


Those screens look amazing to me! If I could achive that I would be overjoyed! Everything just looks awsome!
Maybe I should set my sites lower? Nah, then I would be taking that easy way out again . Guess I'll shoot for the moon (like I haven't done that already with my list of complex features) and see how far I will go!



I have a few days off now from my part-time summer job so I hope I will be able to get somewhere with that unfinished character.

Over and out.
-MoG-

[Juutis]

Those shots indeed look great. And wow, if you manage to create something like that in RF, you SHOULD be overjoyed.
I can't even dream about getting that good visuals in my games. I have a lot to learn when it comes to modeling and texturing.


Take your time to model that player and a couple of weapons before starting the scripting. It's much easier to write a script when you can test it with a finished actor. But if you want, we can start planning or even writing it without the actors.

[MakerOfGames]

I have been modeling in trueSpace 3.2 and gameSpace lite for 2 years now. Along the way I have also been trying to texture objects and learn how to make good textures. As a matter of fact, I think some of the members here might remember me making a thread titled: "How do I make textures that don't suck?". That was probably about a year and a half ago. The important thing is that practice pays off. I am a much better modeler and texture artist than I was a year and a half ago. Heck, in the past 4 months I have noticed my skills iimproved.

Now I want to tell everyone of how I view my game and why I am shooting so high.
I know RF's technology and I look for games that were made with similar technology. Once I find some, I say, wow it is possible to create that with this technology! So then I push myself to the limits trying to match it and in turn throw away everything that I feel doesnt look good enough. I am very hard on myself. It is becasue of this thought process that I do not have anything made for my game even though it has been in development for the past two years. I have been trying to get my skills up to the industry leaders and wont let myself achive less. I guess I am a glutin for self punishment.

Now I know I have previously said about trying to make my graphics look like Halo, but I just remembered that Halo requires Hardware TnL graphics cards so I cant have the same polygon count. So I guess I will shoot for graphics like Half life but with more polygons.

Now here is a very nice looking screeen shot from Half Life: Uplink. Its the demo of half life that was released before HL back in 1998. One thing to note is that this picture was taken from me playing it within the past 2 weeks on my 1.7Ghz pc with a 32meg TNT2 and 512megs of ram so It might look better than screens from back when it was first released.


Now with my thought process I say: Hey that was possible to create back in 1998, it sure is possible to create today! And now I will try to push myself to create it.

Of course to help me I do have two very powerful art tools on my side. I have a nice pen tablet so I can draw on my computer like pencil and paper. And I also have Adobe Photoshop Elements 3.0. These programs and a little training can show great results. So because I have the tools, I feel like I can acctually create graphics similar to the screen above.

Just beacuse I am on the topic of game graphics I want to show a nice render of three textures I made in a test scene in gameSpace Lite. The textures are sand, brick and grass.


The lighting was set up by the program and not me, all I did was choose dawn or dusk, whichever one it was. All three textures I made myself about one year ago. Anyway, just wanted to show a little of my old work while Im on the topic of graphics.

[MakerOfGames]

EDIT: PLEASE READ THE INFORMATION BELOW THIS ORIGINAL POST
I have great news!!!! gameSpace lite will acctually let me save a scene with more than 650 polygons! I dont know how it tired to limit me before, I guess I accidentally clicked save object instead of scene. Anyway. I can make a scene with up to 5000 polygons so I can create all of my content in it so long as an individual model isnt more than 650 polygons(in my case it will be triangles...) well, that wont matter too much because my players will be chopped up for rag doll implimentation. So looks like I will be having an easier time modeling than I thought.

EDIT INFORMATION
Well I thought it would work... it just decided to stop working again. So the above information is null and void! I guess I should email Caligari, because this is the same problem I faced 2 years ago when I tired out the software for the first time. Yes, I know its free, but they are advertising it wrong if it is supposed to be like this.

[MakerOfGames]

Game Update:
Nothing much to say. I am reworking my HUD design and finishing the keyboard layout. I have not got around to getting my one character model finished. I hope to get that done soon. I am finding I have to force myself to work on my game lately because I am in a ruff patch and the easiest way out is surfing the net, spending too much time checking these forums for new posts etc. I will try to use some will power and trudge through it soon. Maybe I will map out how the inventory should work and how I want it to function to make it easy to add new weapons etc.. I do have over 30 in the works... yet again, that number is not set in stone. Ok, I will see if I can get somthing finished today yet.

With my keyboard layout, what keys would be good for changing weapons? Please post your ideas!

*the current key configuration:
forward: E
backwards: D
Left: S
Right: F
Jump/stand up: Space
Crouch/lay: C
Manual Reload: R + right or left click(which one you click will reload)
Pick up/swap weapon: W
Zoom in: Q
Zoom out: A
action key: Caps Lock
Walk/run: Shift

[Juutis]

I am finding I have to force myself to work on my game lately because I am in a ruff patch and the easiest way out is surfing the net, spending too much time checking these forums for new posts etc.

That's a common problem. Sometimes I need to force myself away from these forums too.
Though usually when I'm working on my game I have my Internet browser open and I'm logged in here. Checking for new posts every 30 minutes or so.

what keys would be good for changing weapons

Changing weapons? Like next/previous weapon?

[MakerOfGames]

what keys would be good for changing weapons

Changing weapons? Like next/previous weapon?

Yes, somthing like that. Chaning weapons should only take a keystroke or two and maybe a mouse click. I will need to find some keys to scroll next/previous wepon in the inventory and then one or two keys to set it to one of the players hands. I just cant think of a comfortable way to do it. Feel free to rearange my key layout. Chaning weapons easily is a top priority.

[Juutis]

Oh yeah, now that you said it I realised how important it is to be able to change weapons easily.

This one is tricky... I'll try to think of a way that is easy to use and easy to implement.

[Juutis]

Ok, howbout this:

Two keys, for example G and T, open up a small weapon menu. The menu is hidden normally but pressing these keys make it appear and then you can cycle through all your weapons (G = previous, T = next). When the menu is visible, you could arm the selected weapon by left or right clicking with the mouse. However, if you tried to arm, say, a heavy machinegun to the left hand, a message would appear saying that can't be armed.
So this way you wouldn't have to have different keys for each hand. Though you couldn't shoot while browsing the weapons..

I guess it wouldn't be too hard to script something like this, either.

[MakerOfGames]

That seems like it will work well. I have the Half Life demo and I reconfigured the keys to what I had and your weapon changing idea. It works really well. Only problem is I cant use caps lock as the games "use key" or special key, so I used Q instead which is a very bad choice. I cant hit it half the time I want to. Seems like the action key will have to be more accesible I have have as many user activated events such as opening doors etc. I have found that W is very easy to use in the configuration planned. Maybe W will be the special key so that way you can use it to pick up weapons or to activate special events. What do you think?

[Jay]

I don't know if you like it, but i would think it would be cool if you had exactly 3 'slots' for the weapons.
I mean you have one for the left hand, one for the right hand and one big rifle on the back. You have to set them in an inventory like system and then in the game, when you're not in the inventory, you can change them from the double guns to the rifle and back by hitting one single key. It's not possible to get into the inventory when you're fighting or are attacked.

This way fights get more challenging for the player because he cannot simply hit key number 203 or so to change to the best weapon. It's just my opinion. I would rather like a game that restricts me a bit than some game where you would be like god and just press the + key so that you can access every weapon and then change to the best weapon. And also i can/have to do something VERY important: I must DECIDE which weapon is best rather than just wait for the enemy and then just react to it.

About the keyboard i think, too that Q is not good for the usekey.
You could make, like U = usekey, I = Inventory and then O = Other weapon...

[MakerOfGames]

I don't know if you like it, but i would think it would be cool if you had exactly 3 'slots' for the weapons.
I mean you have one for the left hand, one for the right hand and one big rifle on the back. You have to set them in an inventory like system and then in the game, when you're not in the inventory, you can change them from the double guns to the rifle and back by hitting one single key. It's not possible to get into the inventory when you're fighting or are attacked.

This way fights get more challenging for the player because he cannot simply hit key number 203 or so to change to the best weapon. It's just my opinion. I would rather like a game that restricts me a bit than some game where you would be like god and just press the + key so that you can access every weapon and then change to the best weapon. And also i can/have to do something VERY important: I must DECIDE which weapon is best rather than just wait for the enemy and then just react to it.

About the keyboard i think, too that Q is not good for the usekey.
You could make, like U = usekey, I = Inventory and then O = Other weapon...

I see your points I am very glad you have voiced your opinion! However, I think that system restricts the player too much only being able to carry one large weapon and two small single handed weapons. I am very aware that by enabling the player to carry large numbers of weapons and overpowering them is a problem. Another important thing to remember here is that inventory is not just how I design it, it also is affected by how I set up levels with items and enemies. Too many items and too little enemies is a very bad thing. The inventories appearance to be good or bad is depentent on level design, pawns armor, and even the pawns AI. If any one of those is poor, the inventory system will seem off. Now here is exactly how I invision my inventory system:
The inventory system will have 10 slots and when all are full you will have to drop or swap a weapon to pick up any more.

Now, each weapon will take up a certain ammount of inventory space.

Small weapons = 2

Medium weapons = 3

Large weapons = 4

Now this system of 2, 3, 4 restricts the ammount of weapons properly. For example, pistols take up 2 slots and enable you to max carry 5 pistols and no other weapons.

Medium weapons with the number of 3 would be sub machine guns, general assult rifles, battle rifles, small shotguns, and all the good weapons but not the power houses. And if you choose to cary only medium weapons you can carry only 3 weapons at a time.

Large weapons will have 4 and they will consist of rocket launchers, grenade launches, sniper rilfes, high powered shot guns and generally, the heavy hitters of the weapons. This way you can only carry 2 heavy weapons at a time and one small weapon IE pistol or grenade.

Now I will give you some inventory examples, it is fairly realistic and gives you the ability to carry a nice varity of weapon combos.

2 pistols, Grenades, and a rocket launcher
or
Sniper Rilfe, Tactical Shotgun and grenades
or
2 pistols, grenades, 2 sub machine guns

So no matter what combination you get, it is realistic in the ammount of weapons that a soldier can carry. The games soldier is no super soldier and will not be like unreal tournament and be able to carry 10 weapons and half of them are as deadly as a rocket launcher.
Does that explain things a little better?

Then the way to change weapons would be swtiching through a list of weapons that you have on and then when you land on one you wich to use, you mouse click it to get it into the proper hand. This will even work on large doubled handed weapons like sniper rifles. So if you like carring your weapons in the left hand you can. Also this makes it easier to shoot around all types of corners.

This is the current control layout:
Keyboard Controls

forward: E
backwards: D
Left: S
Right: F
Jump/stand up: Space
Crouch/lay: C
Manual Reload: R + right or left click(which one you click will reload)
Pick up/swap weapon(action key): W
Zoom in: Q
Zoom out: A
Walk/run: Shift
Next weapon: T
Previous Weapon: G
Fire right hand: left click
Fire left hand: right click

Now I know that the hand firing is inverted, but I am used to having the left mouse button make the right hand fire. There will be an option to uninvert the fire method because I know many people like it simple, right is right left is left.

And also i can/have to do something VERY important: I must DECIDE which weapon is best rather than just wait for the enemy and then just react to it.

Oh I know that! That will be one of my hardest jobs to balance my large number of weapons. I will not let that happen I can assure you! All the weapons will be unique. You will be able to tell the differance between pistols, and machines and rocket launchers. And I do not mean that each weapon class will be differnt but you will be able to tell the difference between all pistols and all machine guns and even between rocket launchers. Yes that is plural, rocket launchers. And when I say that there will be more than one I mean there will be at max 3. Now remeber, the player will only have access to them when I want. And I dont want the player to have more than one at a time. I want multiple for variety.
Please post your thoughts!