Release Question

[bernie]

Please guys I am feeling very pressured here and I can well do without that. I am an old man in poor health.
I want to try and make my position on this clear.
I am neither asking for support nor am I expecting any. GameDirector is a private development which I am willing to share. The program is there if anyone wants to use it. It's entirely up to you whether you do or you don't, it does not matter to me one way or the other.
Rf2 in its present form is of little use to me personally.

1 It uses Ogre 1.6. Yes I know its intended to be updated but it won't be as easy as you think. I am not a programmer but I do know this - Ogre 1.7 Uses an entirely different approach to terrain management and that is what I want. It might or might not support the old system of ETL/ETM but that is of little or no use to me. It also DROPS support for CEGUI and uses its own internal gui system. At present there is no way of using CEGUI in Ogre 1.7. It may be possible in the future via a plugin but certainly not at the moment.
As far as I can tell it will mean a complete re-write to update it but as I have said I am not a programmer.

2 I don't want to be messing around with scripting in a language I do not understand. I have tried building RF2 but I am unable to make anything work, all I succeed in doing is causing almighty crashes and I have had to re-install my OS twice due to this. I have enough difficulty with Simkin but I can manage bits and pieces in RF1.

3 Anthony will, I am sure, be able to sort all this out given time and help but I am not the right person to be giving it. I am definitely NOT qualified for the job. There are plenty of others on this forum far better qualified than me who could help.

Having said all this if it is possible to integrate RF2 into Game director we will but it will take time. RF2 will have to be updated to Ogre 1.7 first and use its internal gui system. We have been working on this since before Christmas and are unwilling to ditch it after all the work we have put in.
I am very grateful to Terry for writing it for me.
I will continue to give any help and support I can with RF and the forum.

[QuestOfDreams]

Hey, bernie, I don't want to put anyone under pressure. I just want to clarify the situation so the work on RF2 can go on with well-defined tasks and positions.

I don't know about the terrain in Ogre 1.7 but:

It also DROPS support for CEGUI and uses its own internal gui system. At present there is no way of using CEGUI in Ogre 1.7. It may be possible in the future via a plugin but certainly not at the moment

Yes, Ogre 1.7 drops the dependency on CEGUI and uses its own basic GUI now but that just means that you have to build CEGUI yourself. There's absolutely no problem using it with Ogre as CEGUI still provides a renderer/resource module for Ogre.

Any help you provide on the forum is of course greatly appreciated as it was in the past.

[bernie]

Apologies Qod they do seem to have got it working now I stand corrected. But as you say you have to build it yourself.

[paradoxnj]

Please guys I am feeling very pressured here and I can well do without that. I am an old man in poor health.
I want to try and make my position on this clear.
I am neither asking for support nor am I expecting any. GameDirector is a private development which I am willing to share. The program is there if anyone wants to use it. It's entirely up to you whether you do or you don't, it does not matter to me one way or the other.

Ok. Fair enough. I'll move the announcement from the RF2 forum to the General Discussion forum. I don't want to pressure anyone either. There can't be 2 RF2's and you can't just tag the RealityFactory name to anything.

I tagged the copyright only after the separate Subversion was created to protect my work. RF2 uses the ZLib license. That says you can do whatever you want with the code, but you cannot claim the original work as yours and you must include the license when you release your product.

Rf2 in its present form is of little use to me personally.

That would be because it is not done. I am only one person. As far as I am concerned, I got a lot done in just 6 months considering it was a complete rewrite and only 1-2 hours a day working on it. It will be of great use to you when completed.

1 It uses Ogre 1.6. Yes I know its intended to be updated but it won't be as easy as you think. I am not a programmer but I do know this - Ogre 1.7 Uses an entirely different approach to terrain management and that is what I want. It might or might not support the old system of ETL/ETM but that is of little or no use to me. It also DROPS support for CEGUI and uses its own internal gui system. At present there is no way of using CEGUI in Ogre 1.7. It may be possible in the future via a plugin but certainly not at the moment.
As far as I can tell it will mean a complete re-write to update it but as I have said I am not a programmer.

I agree that Ogre 1.7 is better than 1.6, but it is not G.A. yet. It's still beta. I also need to compile it which is a bigger pain in the butt. It would not be a complete rewrite. I would just have to remove CEGUI and update some functions here and there. Remember, I am not calling the low level Ogre API. I am using what is exposed to the DLL.

2 I don't want to be messing around with scripting in a language I do not understand. I have tried building RF2 but I am unable to make anything work, all I succeed in doing is causing almighty crashes and I have had to re-install my OS twice due to this. I have enough difficulty with Simkin but I can manage bits and pieces in RF1.

You were trying to build a non-released product in release mode. I only program in debug mode so I can debug easily when needed. When I compile for release, that will be in release mode. Any nightly compilations will be in release mode as well. I find it hard to believe that your OS had to be re-installed because of the code. There were underlying issues if that was the case.

The crashes were because of 2 things:

a. You were uncertained how to use the product. I don't have very in-depth error checking as of yet. I also don't have any documentation. This is not your fault, it is just that the product is too new.

b. Instability due to it not being finished.

Either way...it is more stable now and will get even more stable as time goes by.

3 Anthony will, I am sure, be able to sort all this out given time and help but I am not the right person to be giving it. I am definitely NOT qualified for the job. There are plenty of others on this forum far better qualified than me who could help.
Having said all this if it is possible to integrate RF2 into Game director we will but it will take time. RF2 will have to be updated to Ogre 1.7 first and use its internal gui system. We have been working on this since before Christmas and are unwilling to ditch it after all the work we have put in.
I am very grateful to Terry for writing it for me.
I will continue to give any help and support I can with RF and the forum.

Bernie, you know what people want. That is a gift in itself. It is what a designer does.

[QuestOfDreams]

I agree that Ogre 1.7 is better than 1.6, but it is not G.A. yet.

Ogre 1.7.0 final has been released just a few days ago on February 28th.

[hgt_terry]

Paradox


You can Stick it where ever you want mate me and Berine been on this 10 weeks not Six years you do what you whant mate leaste we have a demo you have a svn that does not build and big man show us the binareys.

we needs some nut files that work not am idea in your head and by the way as usual the SVN does not build.

Regards
Terry

[paradoxnj]

Ogre 1.7.0 final has been released just a few days ago on February 28th

Been so wrapped up trying to get the release ready I didn't even see this. Thanks...I'll start the upgrade now.

You can Stick it where ever you want mate

I am sticking it in General Discussion so that it is not confused with RF2. It is the forum rules.

me and Berine been on this 10 weeks not Six years you do what you whant mate leaste we have a demo you have a svn that does not build and big man show us the binareys.

Try 6 months. You should make sure your claws are sharp before taking a swipe. My SVN builds just fine. I've posted about the dependencies and how to build from SVN. I'd be interested to see these build errors you are getting. You can say it doesn't build, but if I don't know what is causing your problems, I cannot help you as it builds just fine for me on 3 different machines (1 VM and 2 physical). Every time I check in, I check it out to another machine and build it to make sure it builds with 3 different versions of VS (2005, 2008, 2008 Express). Once again...I don't do a release build until I release the product (hence the name "release" build).

we needs some nut files that work not am idea in your head and by the way as usual the SVN does not build.

This statement solidifies the fact that you don't know how to use the library. It's a library. It needs but one script (main.nut). To integrate into your editor, you need to use C++...not Squirrel. You could have looked at the WinMain() function of the shell to get the initialization routine (which is 3 function calls).

I also documented what you asked for and you never came back on to pick it up. BTW...learn how to use your tools and follow direction before saying something doesn't work.

[Juutis]

@Original Post:
You should definitely release it as soon as you can. Just make it clear it's a WIP, as others have mentioned already. I'm planning to get to know to RF2 with a very simple game and I'd love to get my hands on RF2 in May. Even if it's at a primitive stage.

@The other discussion:
Naturally, everyone has the freedom to do whatever they want. Duh, it's not like we can stop anyone, anyway. But I'd like to see everyone work together in this project. As a team.

@paradoxnj
I know I've promised to help you with RF2 (or something) but I'm afraid I've been busy with school, a game project I got involved in and life overall, and it will remain so in the future also. I'm sorry for my empty promises. You're doing a fantastic job nevertheless. I'm really looking forward to the first RF2 release.

[bernie]

@paradoxnj

You were trying to build a non-released product in release mode. I only program in debug mode so I can debug easily when needed. When I compile for release, that will be in release mode. Any nightly compilations will be in release mode as well. I find it hard to believe that your OS had to be re-installed because of the code. There were underlying issues if that was the case.

I did build in debug mode not release.

The crashes were because of 2 things:

a. You were uncertained how to use the product. I don't have very in-depth error checking as of yet. I also don't have any documentation. This is not your fault, it is just that the product is too new.

b. Instability due to it not being finished.

Yes you are quite right that's exactly what the cause of the crashes was. I obviously didn't make that clear.

Bernie, you know what people want. That is a gift in itself. It is what a designer does.

Thanks for the compliment but I'm not sure its true.

There can't be 2 RF2's and you can't just tag the RealityFactory name to anything.

I will change our logo and we will remove any reference to RealityFactory in the program.

I apologise for getting off topic in the first place.
Now hopefully we can lay this to rest and get this back to the original topic.

[paradoxnj]

@The other discussion:
Naturally, everyone has the freedom to do whatever they want. Duh, it's not like we can stop anyone, anyway. But I'd like to see everyone work together in this project. As a team.

That is what I am trying to do. People seem to have their own ideas, which I am fine with, but they need to be discussed as a team.

@paradoxnj
I know I've promised to help you with RF2 (or something) but I'm afraid I've been busy with school, a game project I got involved in and life overall, and it will remain so in the future also. I'm sorry for my empty promises. You're doing a fantastic job nevertheless. I'm really looking forward to the first RF2 release.

No worries...Life has hit me a few times during this process as well.

I will change our logo and we will remove any reference to RealityFactory in the program.

I apologise for getting off topic in the first place.
Now hopefully we can lay this to rest and get this back to the original topic.

Thanks Bernie. I just want to avoid confusion. No need to apologize.

[Loelin]

Maybe I can be of assistance. You see, Neo-Axis already made an OGRE 3D game maker, but the problem is that everything has to be pre-modeled (As in, no designing of walls, floors, ceilings, etc. without modeling them from a different editor). If you guys learn from Neo-Axis and combine with the power of a GEdit like program, then you got something there.

I know that coding is hard, but its all logical if you think about it.

[AkillezMight]

Alright Alright Alright, its like being forced to watch the Young and the Restless! Stop all the DRAMA. Please. Yall sound like a bunch of females (Emo). I do see the passion behind providing RF to those of use who have no skills with programming. I truly appreciate RF because of its ability to allow me and others to create VIDEO GAMES. I would be satisfied with just having to use RF with no RF2 ever coming out. It is only programming engine that I have come across that allows me to use without a steep learning curve and extensive knowledge of programming. I just got home from 16 hours at work and first thing I do before I eat or chase my girlfriends is jump on RF and let it do what it do. I love games therefore I love RF's ability to allow me and others to create games on any level of game making knowledge from begginer to advanced. 3/4 of the time I have no idea what the hizzy you guys are talking about when you are under dicussions of building this that. But you know what at the end of the day you if build it then you do. Just know that there is already a Kool a$$ product out there named RF and it more than completed me. lol. I tried other 3d game engines and I almost commited suicide trying to learn them. I do give everyone props because all of the projects are just hobbies. Amazing. So if you power rangers do learn to team up then more powa to ya and if you don't just know that we as a community will not be disappointed, although with all the hype surrounded with RF2 coming out anticipation matches the release of a new gaming console like xbox360 or ps3 now project natal " no controllers" SC4 her I come,we became exited.-sometimes I visit the RF2 site and think about what things could be , HAHA death broke its ankle! FamGuy. anywaz - family guy is on and Death is funny as heILIL., Yeah, long story long just know that you all can do anything you put your mind to and things will and can alot smoother just as long as we all pull together and crank that sh*t out. No pressure, if it is realeased now our ten years from now your hard work and passion is greatly appreciated by this community just because of RF. I have spent the last year designing ZERO CELSIUS on and off, I even went through a recent divorce mainly because I spend so much time playing VIdeo Games and writing down all of my ideas.. etc...etc. Even plan on going to school to get another degree in Computer Programming so I can have a career. So in conclusion when, not if this happens with RF2, because this will happen or else- I will come find all of you- because I believe that you all have given us the ability to create the world that we see inside our imagination and we gracefully accept that as a gift. Be inspired and continue pressing forward to a solution with no time constaints. I don kno about everyone else but I am still trying to master RF.

Next breath: Everyone take a big breath and think about life and problems and goals. Life will happen. Give your time when you have it and do your best. Thankyou for RF. Truly AkillezMight.

Now If you all still need a swift kick in the A$$ I do have a "demo 0.1" lol- that I want to release of ZeroCelsius. So since I know diddly squat untill I learn it then could someone direct me to where I would upload the ZeroCelsius files so the community can challenge the illest enemy ever created in the virtual world?

End Communications .... Back to real life... and programming : )