Promises, promises

[bernie]

@allanon

Bernie and hgt_terry you guys are being a little hypocritical,

Not at all. Only a person who doesn't understand the meaning of the word INTEND would think that.
There is a huge difference between an INTENTION (which is something that only MAY happen if circumstances permit) and a PROMISE (which is a guarantee on your honour that it WILL happen), or It WILL happen (not quite as strong as a promise but certainly much more than an intention).

[Nighthawk_0973]

And with a single post bernie strikes back!

[Allanon]

Well, looking at it from an end user point of view Bernie's intentions and Paradoxnj's promises have produced the same thing.

[hgt_terry]

Yes there as bin a delay in releasing the next development version due to a rewrite of the character Controller part which now as full Physics and Gravity and is down to polygon level and has jump facilities now.

There has been a delay releasing the next binary version but the code has always been available and is updated on a daily basis’s via SVN and is relatively easy to build but a binary version will be out soon.

Terry

[paradoxnj]

@Allanon - Thanks. Bernie is correct though. I should not have used the word promise. I should have used intend. I would have sounded more like a politician then. I intend to use the word intend next time. On a serious note..Bernie is correct. I should have released. I did release an alpha near the original date that Andy promised.

@Bernie - If you are developing your own project...why do you care so much about RF2?

@Nighthawk - GameDirector (GD) is Bernie and Terry's game shell. It resembles RF1 functionality-wise with no scripting language. It uses the Ogre engine (like RF2 ) and has some more features. Unity is a professional game engine which is available for free at http://www.unity.com. Unreal Engine is free as well at http://www.udk.com. Google is your friend...

@Terry - Having the code available is not a release. A release is a set of precompiled binaries for users. Code is great for developers but users need binaries. Practice what you preach and release your development binaries once a month. Also...you guys seem preoccupied with seeing my code. I have it separated for a reason.

From now on...it will be done when it is done. Now I understand why QoD uses that development timeline. Sheesh!!!

[Nighthawk_0973]

Google is your best friend

Why am I seeing that around more often on forums oh, so, suddenly.

btw, I got hired for GD so it's a good thing I've got the general idea of what it is . I'm html designer.

Also, paradox, did u get my PM? Don't know if I asked you yet but...

[ericssin]

well yeah promise is a huge word, that's why I always say "I'll try to do it by..." when doing something for free. anyways, I will keep waiting for RF2 sooner or later it will come to life, hey if Duke Nukem Forever is comming on june(I hope), then we'll have RF2 too, we just have to wait, but sometimes as the song goes: "the waiting is the hardest part" . In any case waiting for RF2 is a good excuse for learning LUA and since I'm on that train learn python too.

[bernie]

@paradoxnj

If you are developing your own project...why do you care so much about RF2?

Because I am interested in ANY new game system and we were made to believe that an RF2 release was imminent, but I can see now that it will probably be years, rather than weeks or months before something is released, with which you can make a game without programming.
I would also like to point out a few errors in your posts.
1 I am not a programmer so I can't develop my own project. Instead I am helping Terry to develop GameDirector by testing the program as he writes it. I am also making models and developing the scenes. I am suggesting the things a USER wants from the program and Terry is trying to implement them.
2 You say GameDirector doesn't have scripting. Yes that is true at the moment because he hasn't programmed it yet, but it is intended that scripting will be added at the appropriate time. It is very important from a user point of view to make a system where a game can be made without programming and scripting IS programming. Yes I know scripting is important but later. GameDirector is being built with the EDITOR first. That way people can play with it and suggest improvemnts as the project progresses.
3 No networking... again not yet. GameDirector is being built from the bottom up rather than the top down.

[Nighthawk_0973]

well yeah promise is a huge word, that's why I always say "I'll try to do it by..." when doing something for free. anyways, I will keep waiting for RF2 sooner or later it will come to life, hey if Duke Nukem Forever is comming on june(I hope), then we'll have RF2 too, we just have to wait, but sometimes as the song goes: "the waiting is the hardest part" . In any case waiting for RF2 is a good excuse for learning LUA and since I'm on that train learn python too.

Yes, I'm learning Lua as well. But I'm acually using my Lua for something fun, and thats making iOS apps on windows! You can do with the corona SDK at http://www.anscamobile.com best way to learn lua while editing stuff.

[paradoxnj]

What is the real reason you care so much about RF2 if you have GameDirector? You didn't answer the question. RF2 not being released does not affect you in the least. You are working on an alternative project which has your ideas in it. You invested your time and effort into that, why care about RF2?

3 No networking... again not yet. GameDirector is being built from the bottom up rather than the top down.

Any programmer knows that if you are incorporating network into an application it should be done from day 1 as it changes the entire design of the application especially if the application has to act as a client and a server. Network is a foundation component...not a second floor component.

2 You say GameDirector doesn't have scripting. Yes that is true at the moment because he hasn't programmed it yet, but it is intended that scripting will be added at the appropriate time. It is very important from a user point of view to make a system where a game can be made without programming and scripting IS programming. Yes I know scripting is important but later. GameDirector is being built with the EDITOR first. That way people can play with it and suggest improvemnts as the project progresses.

Building from the bottom up means functionality first then ease of use. You guys are building top down putting ease of use first. You wouldn't build a house starting on the second floor. I am building bottom up (foundation to second floor) focusing on functionality first then making it easier for people to use (automation). So more advanced users will be able to start first and build foundations for the not so advanced users. If you can't change the behavior of your objects, then it's not much of a game.

1 I am not a programmer so I can't develop my own project. Instead I am helping Terry to develop GameDirector by testing the program as he writes it. I am also making models and developing the scenes. I am suggesting the things a USER wants from the program and Terry is trying to implement them.

That makes you a designer and QA person. There is more to a project than just programmers. You are the admin of the forums as well as a listed developer on SourceForge. You've also checked in files to SourceForge. You have a lot of time and effort into GameDirector, that kind of makes it your project too.

[bernie]

Well from a user point of view the editor must come first otherwise the program can't be tested until the final product, which is pretty useless really as it means the user just gets what he is given. So I'm afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

[zany_001]

I feel like hitting bernie and terry, although bernie's a little too old for me to feel comfortable doing that ;o

Come on guys, RF2 will be done Soon(TM), paradox's doing his best, and if you haven't personally done your level best to aid in getting it released then you have no right to comment on his work. If you hadn't gone off and made this GD project, we'd have three coders working on RF2 and it might be released by now; instead you've caused community division. If you're going to go do your own thing, GO DO IT and don't come here with your comments on Mr. P's progress, as it's clearly not something that important to you anymore.

[bernie]

Cool it zany there is no need for threats.

If you hadn't gone off and made this GD project, we'd have three coders working on RF2 and it might be released by now;

We haven't gone off anywhere. I would also like to point that I don't know the first thing about programming so that would only make 2 programmers working on it not 3.

I am sure you must know a lot about programming being young and in your prime but I don't see you helping Paradox much either. If you were to help that would speed things up a bit wouldn't it.

Well I would like to say that before anything was actually seen to be happening with RF2 and we were working on Equity, Terry asked me for my input for an editor for Ogre and I was very pleased to help him in that way, making a few models and advising what is needed from a user point of view. When Paradox asked for help Terry was only too pleased to give him what we had, but he was turned down on the grounds that it didn't fit with the code that had been written for RF2. So we carried on with what we were doing, not wanting to waste the time we had put in on it.
If you care to read back on this thread you will see that the slight difference of opinion was settled between us... we agreed to disagree on the order in which things were done.
We do want RF2 as much as anyone and what we are doing is just an alternative that is keeping us busy and hopefully will turn out to be an excellent Editor.

[zany_001]

I don't have a computer with which to learn programming and help paradox.

I know the history of why GD was started but it still seems ridiculous to me.

Yes, it's an alternative, which makes it a competitor, which means community division. Not a good thing.

[bernie]

It's NOT a competitor at all it IS an alternative. Nothing seemed to be happening with RF2, the svn had not been updated so no new code. No demo's had been released which did anything more than the ogre demos, so it was not a ridiculous thing to do at all. Paradox has since explained that he is using another repostitory but until then nothing has been seen to be done for over a year now. Anyway we started the project long before that and are not going to give it up. There is nothing we can do towards RF2 anyway so why just sit and wait when we could be doing something useful? When and if RF2 does appear we will support it in the same way we support RF1.