Reality Factory

paradoxnj wrote: Either way...isn't it better to know how things work even if it's a hobby? That's like playing baseball and not knowing how to play properly. You can get hurt.

That's what the tutorials are for. You may not learn the inner-workings of Genesis3d,.. but you'll know how RF works and be able to use it to full potential. RF is what enables visual-oriented people like me to actually create something with a 3d engine without knowing the math. (I'm a math-retard.)

if people started wondering about the inner workings of hobbies then the world would come to an end, take for example beer and tv, beer comes in a bottle or can, does it bother you how the bottle was made, does it bother you how the beer was maed, probably not aslong as it tastes good, sitting in front of a tv, you know how to control the tv but you dont know how programs are made, yea its a camera but theres gona be more to it, you dont know how the tv was made but you know how to use it, if people botherd to learn about their "hobbies" it wouldnt be a hobby no more.
i my self am serious about game creation, so far i am in the industry as a tester, next year im going to university, there they will tech me how to model and animate and become a level designer, they also have games companies interested in the students who leave.
http://www.fcet.staffs.ac.uk/prospectiv ... design.ppt
so yea i do belive that there is a possibility of being hired by those companies, not without education but without programming.

Maybe it's me....but I RTFM before I use something.

Golf and Programming are my hobbies. Sound is my profession. I went to school for sound, not programming yet I am programming a 3D engine (Jet3D). This is because Genesis sparked my interest into how things work. Specifically rendering using DirectX. There are multiple aspects to programming a 3D engine. There is good ol fashioned math along with animation, timing, polygon management, frame rate management, shaders, etc...

scott, as a tester, you should know the inner workings of a game. The testers that work for my company are in college for some form of industry knowledge. We do not just pick someone up off the street. Here's a question...If you see a flickering animation when a character rotates its arm, do you say "Hey boss, there's a flickering animation" or do you say "Hey boss, that animation sequence looks like it's suffering from gimbal lock."? Which answer would gain you more respect and notariety?

For a hobbyist, knowing that animation is suffering from gimbal lock would also mean that they should know how to fix this problem (implement quaternions for rotations) and to gain the knowledge to do so (if not already attained) hence making them smarter and more useful to the community in which they inhabit (RF in this case). Let's take federico for instance. He is finishing up Nout's work implementing physics into RF. I'm sure he didn't wake up one morning by an apple striking his head and become a physics master. He learned about how it worked because it sparked his interest. When that is finished, it will be the best asset to this engine since stencil shadows. NOTE: This does not mean anyone else is useless.

I'm not saying everyone should be like me because I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I am saying that if this community would put half the effort into learning the internals of the technology as they do asking when RF2 will be completed, we would not be waiting for RF2 until 2010.

paradoxnj wrote:Maybe it's me....but I RTFM before I use something.

:O
u said RTFM!

i understand what you mean paradoxnj and i dont want to cause an argument for arguments sake but yes, me and almost all other testers at rare would put boss has messy animation with arms, we attatch video, if it dont happen all the while we have to put repro steps, and crashes we have debug info, they sort out the technical infosufice to say i dont even know what gimbal lockis exactly and hadnt hurd of the saying before you mentiond it in the physics post, no they dont just employ anybody as a tester, basicly they gave me a scinario (halo 3 in a room, however this was not the game i was testing) how and what would i test, that and information on making a game at home and being really keen in the subject got me the job (also having played console games for years) but to be honest i do think they did employ anyone, there was a guy next to me, on his first day as the same as mine, he asked me what is a bug, its like wtf, but fortunatly for Rare he lasted about a week wich is how long the trial period of weather to keep the person or not is, however they have kept me for 2 games and a demo now and about to start a 3rd game in a months time being the new game banjo kazooie (i belive but dont quote me on that just yet)
i have never had to put technical information into any bug, and from the ones i had to check after the supposed fix have never seen anyone put technical information into their bugs (neither the uk or the usa teams) weather thats a good thing or not i dont know.

edit*
the problem with the method you mentiond, including the technical information is that it may be incorect for one, where as a descriton of the problem cant be wrong and the fact that while you know what gimbal lock is for example you might not know something else technicaly orientated, and if another tester mentions it and you have no idea of what that is then trying to reproduce the bug to check the fix would be difficult.

No one is arguing...we are having a discussion. Excellent answer BTW.

paradoxnj wrote:No one is arguing...we are having a discussion. Excellent answer BTW.

thank you.

saying all that some technical things do interest me, however this isnt the coding, if your a programmer its a dream come true (i would belive) because looking at the debuging info you can see how parts of the game work, but for me its the animation and modeling techniques, when i was playing golden eye remake for the xbox 360 there are weapons with no textures, this is exelent to see raw 3d weapons with none of those maps aplied on top.
i suppose it works the other way round, if your a programer you realy dont need to know much about modeling or texturing skills, its up to each person what they like or not, and i do belive thats the best part about RF is its for all users, if you want to become a 3d modelist or level designer and want to be able to publish your work then you dont need to touch the scripting side, just using the standard scripts, modify them a little, i would not call this programing, to change the animation names in the script, and you have your own game with enemies and a world to explore.
or if you wanted to become a programer the engine itself can be changed and improved (would be nice for a community release of it also ) giving you the chance if you want to sell the improved engine (i do belive that is possible with the current agreement or is it just free to publish games?)

Hey, I realize it is kinda late, but a commercial engine I tried before RF, I forget what it was called, but it was terrible. To create a room, you had a text box and a 3d area. You would type in the text box:
this would create a room that was hollow, with a wall thickness of two, with a light on the cieling that had a value of 100 of all colors. you then moved this around the 3D world into place, then you would attatch this to another room by selecting the two touching rooms and typing: so this would connect the rooms so that you could cut a doorway, but keep the joining wall, if you exclude keepwall, it will just delete the wall so it'll be a big open space. To cut a doorway, you would then type: this would cut a doorway with a width of 20, a height of 46 and a thickness of 4 you then moved this into place, and after the 1 week trial period was up, you could buy it for a discounted retail value of $1000 which was a generous $50 lesss than the original value. It had its perks, and was a big professional program for big companies. which was why it was so pricy (before then, I had thought MS3D was expensive at $25!) My dads company had used it for a while. which was why I was able to get a trial.

I am saying that if this community would put half the effort into learning the internals of the technology as they do asking when RF2 will be completed, we would not be waiting for RF2 until 2010

i myself am learning programming so i can do exactly that, shortening how long RF2 releases, and improving it. Once i work out a few things, i will want to do things for RF/2, which hopefully ppl like QoD and AndyCR can tell me what needs doing. This thread is going waaay offtopic BTW.
perhaps some1 could make a thread for improving the communitys programming knowledge to improve RF. Imagine 600 programmers working on RF.Thats probably as big as Microsoft Windows DEv team size is;

good points, I could probably help with RF2 once you guys want help. My dad and I could sit on C++ for a couple hours over the weekends, just an offer specifically for the DEV team.

Well lets be real honest. Without a 50 man development team, and 2 years of 80 hour weeks your just never going to come close to Halo 3.

Heck probably never going to come close to Halo 1. Even 20 people working in their spare time will slowly but surely fall further and further behind current standards.

Where RF comes in is that many people have millions of game ideas. About 90% of have already been done or aren't different enough from what has been done to warrant ever being made.

However for the 10% who have really outstanding ideas. RF gives them a means to prototype their idea in a short time span. So if your trying to sell the idea, or get it produced you have something to show other than some pieces of paper. Which most publishers won't even look at.

ZenBudha wrote:you have something to show other than some pieces of paper. Which most publishers won't even look at.

not if theres something bad about them on that paper........then..........