Models question.

[msx]

I am not a modeler persae (but it looks like I will be doing some modeling). Without getting to much into numbers (polygons etc.) I would just like to ask a question using comparisons:

Can RF use models of Quake 3 quality or better, maybe Unreal 2k3 quality even? Or will I need to use less quality?

Here is some screen shots:

UT2K3 and 2k4:

http://www.hqnfiles.com/ss/noysumn.jpg


http://www.hqnfiles.com/ss/hunter.jpg


Quake 3 Arena:

http://www.mindlessgrafx.com/massacre.html

http://www.mindlessgrafx.com/Q4hybrid.html

[Juutis]

Well, RF's graphics engine (Genesis3D?) is awfully old... it can't handle high polygon counts.

I think Quake 3 quality models could be used in RF but only so that there is 2-3 models on the screen at the same time. I really can't say anything 100% sure, the only way to find out is testing. Try getting some Q3 models in RF and see how it runs.

[steven8]

In Castle of the Pharaoh, those skeletons I put in were over 1000 polys each. One or two on screen weren't too bad, but in the underground part, where 4 come at you, then it gets a bit dicy. Okay, it gets quite dicy. About 7 to 12 fps.

[Juutis]

A while back I downloaded that Castle of the Pharaoh... I got stuck in the front yard.

I couldn't get to the underground part at all. There was some secret hatch at the graveyard, right? Well... it didn't want to open!!!
Anyway, I ended up jumping over a border of the level and found myself running on the floor of the skybox... and that's when I stopped playing.

I guess I'm not that great player, after all.

***EDIT***
Sorry for going offtopic.

***EDITEDIT***
Hey! It's my 200th post!!! Go me!
Even more offtopic... sorry!

[msx]

Well Steven8, did your frame rate drop down that low becuse your using an older computer/graphics card or is it the RF engine? Maybe I should try and get some Q3 models in here and see what's up with it. I am using a decsent computer.

msx's quick puter stats:

1 GB Ram

Nvidia 256mb GeForce 6200 (sweet!)

WinXP Pro / PCLinuxOS (Dual Boot)

[ZenBudha]

It's a balance between your level geometry, scripts, and number of pawns you will need displayed on screen at a time.

One thing I've learned about RF in my use is you have to be very carefull with the level design. Two almost identical looking rooms can be made and run at totally different FPS.

Especially when you get to lowering the lightmap scale and using hi-res textures. RF can get to looking pretty good. However I learned no lightmap and burning the shadows etc into the textures worked much better.

In general though I would say 1,000 polys or less. Also remember when looking at a model in a modelling program or in the actviewer you can see all the details. Thus you look at a 500 poly model and go "Ewww". However in game when the alien jumps from the ceiling at the player he can't tell if it's a 5000 poly model, or a 500 poly model unless he stops to admire it after it's dead.

But in truth RF is an older engine. If you want to make a modern graphically impressive game you might want to look into a commercial engine. If you want to make a decent looking game that shows off some new ideas, and great gameplay elements easily. Then RF is the ticket.

[Juutis]

In general though I would say 1,000 polys or less. Also remember when looking at a model in a modelling program or in the actviewer you can see all the details. Thus you look at a 500 poly model and go "Ewww". However in game when the alien jumps from the ceiling at the player he can't tell if it's a 5000 poly model, or a 500 poly model unless he stops to admire it after it's dead.

Actor LOD comes handy here. You can have a 500 poly model for the normal usage, but when the camera is really close to the model you can swap the model to a 1500 poly model.

[GD1]

RF can handle Q3 quality just fine. I've actually always thought of the two engines as being very similar.

I try to keep my models between 700-1000 polygons, and that usaully works out ok. and, as was mentioned, LOD is a lifesaver, use it to its limits.

remember, that only your RAM and CPU affect the framerate in RF. Since RF does not currently take advantage of graphics cards i'm afraid even the best of those wouldn't do any good.

however, with my games I have been able to achieve above 200FPS even on extremely large levels. RF is a very useful tool... if you know what you are doing... and more importantly, how to do it right.

[AndyCR]

Right now RF does not use hardware t&l which lowers the framerate significantly due to it not using the video card for much at all. In RF you'll be lucky to have characters of 700-1000 polys each and about a 35,000 poly scene in view at a time on decently modern machines.

[Jay]

and about a 35,000 poly scene in view at a time on decently modern machines.

not so pessimistic, please!

In fact i think you can be VERY happy with that.



Ok think about it:
I once read that a 700Mhz CPU can theorethically render 350.000Polys per second. However, in the end, there will be about 50.000Polys because of other thinghs the CPU also has to do.

So lets say i have a 2100Mhz(which i have....)...makes 150.000Polys per second..´. makes...4,2Fps!!!!! *Mommy i am scared! There is something big and slow coming into the window!*

Even in case there would be no game and no scripts and no collision and no stencil shadows and....nothing besides rendering of polys, i would get 30fps...man i can't wait for hardware t&l which would give me framrates like this with an old Geforce2MX...and i REALLY hope it's coming soon...


700-1000Polys for an Actor are ok, i think, bit LOD is really helpfull here.

However, this doesn't mean you cannot make a good looking game with RF. There are other ways to get a game good-looking than an insane poly count.

[GD1]

As Zen_Budha mentioned, another way to increase speed is to render all level geometry as fullbright and bake the lighting into the textures. By doing this you bypass the lightmapping system, cutting thousands of unneeded polygons out of your levels. I have actually incorporated this into the visual style of my Fa7al 3xception project. With this project I have gotten about 300fps on my slow computer (according to fraps). While on my other projects that did use lightmapping i tend to get about 15fps maximum.