Reality Factory

Someone on the bungie.net forums posted this link and i thought it would serve us well.

http://mahmoudkhatib.tripod.com/militaryguns/id11.html

It explains how different or similar the guns are. This is mainly for the fps crowd but is worth a look.

I like how now it's pretty standard for most big corps to actually get some weapons experience before making a FPS. Because it allows them to tweak them just that much more so that even a sci-fi game feels a little more real.

Especially for those of us with a lot of actual weapons experience. Bad game guns are a major turn off for me.

Then again I'm too picky about everything which is why nothing ever gets done. lol.

Same here. been trying to design my own battle rifle for my fps. I want to have a scope and a pump action grenade launcher under the barrel. i cant seem to design one that looks quite right. they either look like the halo 2 rifle or a colt commando i think its called. That and my controls may not allow the use of both a scope and grenade launcher on the same gun cause im using halo pc control setup. Not to go all halo is the best or anything i just like the defualt control setup and when i play unreal tournament find myself dieing more than i should cause i thought i threw a grenade with that last right mouse click.

The only gun i ever fired was a paintball gun. After seeing and feeling how a gun should be handled i feel that guns in games should be more realistic. As long as it doesnt take away from fun. Which isnt a problem for me cause for some reason it doesnt matter if it too realistic. except for recoil.

I like it whne the recoil is realistic, I get really turned off if the gun just sits still while pumping off .45 shells at a zombie.
I'd like to see both a scope and a grenade launcher on the same gun.
Maybe you could do a Thing were when you swith guns it goes to the grenade launcher part.

Well you never really see a scope and a grenade launcher on the same rifle. Since a scope tends to interfere with the rear grenade launcher sight.

Also no uch thing as a pump action grenade launcher. On the M4 you slide it forward to open and put in another shell, and then pull it back to lock it before firing.

Of course anything is possible in Sci-fi like Halo etc.

The problem I find with weapon recoil in most games is it's either totally unrealistic, or exagerated. For example all the weapons in the Rainbow 6 games have way over done recoil.

For example a trained shooter could dump a full mag in full auto with an M4 on a man sized target at 100 meters and keep every shot on paper. Where in the RB6 games the M4 is the worst spray gun of them all.
Operation IGI had good recoil simulation but was kind of annoying because to counter the muzzle rise you have to constantly pull the mouse down.

As well pistols in games tend to be super accurate when in real life 25 yards rapid fire takes a pro to keep even half the shots on paper.

Recoil on modern style submachine guns might as well just be shake because with recoil compensators it's nothing to hold them on target.

Truth be told the Assault Rifle in Halo is probably more realistic than any of the weapons in Rainbow Six (any version).

As well something you never see in games dealing with grenade launchers that is standard in real life is the fact that if you shot a grenade launcher into the ground 4 feet in front of you it will not explode.

The grenade spins like rifle bullet when launched and has a gyro mechanism inside which basically counts revolutions and doesn't explode no matter what under 25 meters. It's a safety mechanism so people don't accidentally fire the grenade launcher and take out half their own men.

That and anything under 25 meters can be hit with a regular grenade.
Always annoying like in SOFII online when someone blasts you at 10 feet with the grenade launcher.

where did you learn about guns? i really need more info so i can make my guns more realistic.

whats your take on the killzone rifles?

stupid question what is sof2 online?

I think SOF2 = Soldier Of Fortune 2.
Not sure tho never played SOF online.

Well I own guns, and I've been shooting them since I was 5 years old.

When I say I own guns I don't mean a deer rifle and a shotgun either.
I'm a NRA military rifle match shooter, bolt action match shooter, and shoot 3 gun matches as well.

At least I did shoot 3 gun matches before I went broke after losing my job for awhile and had to sell my CETME.

I also like to attend the Knob Creek shoot one in a blue moon. Gotta feed that belt fed itch even if it is $75 to burn through a belt. Of course better to rent since most full auto's cost anywhere from $4000 for a Mac-10 to $25,000+ for just about anything belt fed. A select fire M4 will run around $10,000.

Best way to learn about guns is to shoot them. Then go get some real training at some place like Blackwater's training facility is pretty much #1 in the country. But it's about $800 for a 2-3 day pistol training course, and it's not really a learners course. Need to at least know the basics and figured out how to actually hit a target 15 feet in front of you.

Funniest thing I ever saw was a guy I knew bought a Glock 40 cal compensated as his first gun. Took him to the range and watched him dump mag after mag at a box around 15 feet in front of him and didn't even start hitting it any untill the 3rd mag.

Sof2 is Soldier of Fortune 2 played online. Was still off but up untill the cheesy gamer realism mods took over was one of the more realistic shooters, not just because of the guns but because of the body armor, the way damage was totalled.
It still had people bunny jumping, and pistols were still laser guns though.

As well there probably isn't much info you could read to make guns more realistic. You just have to be a shooter to understand what goes into it.

As well when speaking to people it's hard to know if they know what they're talking about. Your range rambo's, match shooters, hunters, etc all pretty much get lumped together.

Soldiers can't tell you much at all about what goes on when firing. They train to a point the weapon becomes natural. They see the enemy, they shoot the enemy. They don't notice things like recoil, or think about things like aiming, safety switches, reloading. All of it is to them as using a mouse is to a gamer.

Which why even after going out and shooting some weapons for a day they still get a bunch wrong. About the only way to get it right would be to have a veteran standing over there shoulder testing everything and making them adjust it over and over.

Close counts. Most gamers would probably think realistic weapons were unrealistic. They been so missinformed by bad realistic but touted realistic games to recognize the difference.

so i would be better off with no recoil on most of the guns but maybe a little crosshair shifting for some?

though im making a sci fi shooter so i could just forget recoil.

Yeah it's up to you and with Sci-Fi you can't really mess it up.

A little realism here is a 25 yard target I shot left handed the other day with the pistol on the right. It's a IMI Baby Eagle compact 9mm.
Bear in mind this was slow fire at the range and not moving around or being shot at.



You can tell it took a mag before I got centered on the target. Slighty high over the center is normal POA for me with pistols. As well you can tell where my left wrist got tired after about 50 rounds and they started to get erratic.

Given I've been shooting a good while. If you bought a pistol at the store tomorrow and went to the range most would be doing great if they could keep even 50% of their shots on paper at 25 yards.

So it depends on who the player is supposed to be. Plus so much goes in to shooting there's just no way to actually "realistically" simulate it.