Building a pc...
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MakerOfGames
- Posts: 866
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Building a pc...
I am looking into building my own pc but am very undereducated on hardware. I know what is "good" but then to look into it and getting into clock speeds, front side bus speeds, connection types, processor specs(IE: cache) etc, I don't know what to look for and what is better. I have searched the net for tutorials and information but most articles are too hardware specific(meaning that they bought whatever hardware and no other info is given such as why or how they came to it) and are over a year old. How can I better educate myself on this?
Think outside the box.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.
Let's start with something easy. When a processor has a dual core, that means you have two CPUs in one, meaning to virtally doubling the speed. However, in real-life-situations, you will get approximately 60-80% plus instead of 100%. This is because they share the same cache and various other thinghs.
Having a fast processor requires also a fast memory. The memory cannot be fast enough because with todays CPUs, it takes mere milliseconds to execute every command that is saved in the cache (and with dual cores, it goes even faster because they share the same cache), and so the memory (and the mainboards Front-Side-Bus is deeply bound to this, it determines how fast the data can be send over the to the processor) has tom make sure that everything is there in the cache when the processor needs it, the data, the commands, everything.
PCI-Express was a marketing gag. Sure, everyone builds their graphics card on this new platform, but it's just when you had AGP 16x from the speed. As we all know, AGP bus (and PCI bus too) is WAY too slow for the graphics card to get its full potencial (today's programmer's work around this problem by creating 'Vertex buffers' that store all the model information on the graphics card itself (and the access to the video card's memory from the graphics chip is like 10-20 times faster). Just wanted to mention that. Don't suspect wonders from it.
Which brings us to the next topic: graphic cards. Simply put, if you buy anything that supports DirectX10 will be good in future. I don't know much here because i haven't watched the market for like a year or so...
Next are hard drives: There is something very interesting going on there. They put Flash-Ram as some sort of cache onto the hard-drive. The idea is simple: hard drives are fast with big files that can be read as one big 'stream', while they lack speed with many small files. This is why the windows start takes this long: Windows consists of thousands of small files. This is where the FlashRam comes in: It is good for many small files because the access to it is much faster, but lacks speed with big files that can be loaded in one stream. This way, in extreme situations, the speed could be likle 10-20 times higher. I will make a guess and say they are like 2 till 3 times faster than the normal drives. The harddrive is often also a bottleneck because before the data is sent to the system memory, it has to be loaded by the disk, and the disk is normally the slowest thing in the whole computer, if you take apart those dvd-drives (even slower) and other storage devices!
Buy one of those! I heard that Windwos Vista will be/is making exclusive use of those, writing all the files neccesary to start into the FlashRam when you shut down, and then you could start windows in mere seconds!
I would suggest you to first look for the processor, then search for a fitting motherboard (because they only fit to the correct motherboards, they have a 'socket system' and everyone seems to use different ones. Very confusing.). Then you can search for the fitting memory. Then the graphics card and then the harddrives. At the end you would look for the rest, like sound/network cards (many mainboard already have them built in, there's nothing wrong with a Gigabit-Network onbard...) and the famous dvd-burners.
Hope that helps...
Having a fast processor requires also a fast memory. The memory cannot be fast enough because with todays CPUs, it takes mere milliseconds to execute every command that is saved in the cache (and with dual cores, it goes even faster because they share the same cache), and so the memory (and the mainboards Front-Side-Bus is deeply bound to this, it determines how fast the data can be send over the to the processor) has tom make sure that everything is there in the cache when the processor needs it, the data, the commands, everything.
PCI-Express was a marketing gag. Sure, everyone builds their graphics card on this new platform, but it's just when you had AGP 16x from the speed. As we all know, AGP bus (and PCI bus too) is WAY too slow for the graphics card to get its full potencial (today's programmer's work around this problem by creating 'Vertex buffers' that store all the model information on the graphics card itself (and the access to the video card's memory from the graphics chip is like 10-20 times faster). Just wanted to mention that. Don't suspect wonders from it.
Which brings us to the next topic: graphic cards. Simply put, if you buy anything that supports DirectX10 will be good in future. I don't know much here because i haven't watched the market for like a year or so...
Next are hard drives: There is something very interesting going on there. They put Flash-Ram as some sort of cache onto the hard-drive. The idea is simple: hard drives are fast with big files that can be read as one big 'stream', while they lack speed with many small files. This is why the windows start takes this long: Windows consists of thousands of small files. This is where the FlashRam comes in: It is good for many small files because the access to it is much faster, but lacks speed with big files that can be loaded in one stream. This way, in extreme situations, the speed could be likle 10-20 times higher. I will make a guess and say they are like 2 till 3 times faster than the normal drives. The harddrive is often also a bottleneck because before the data is sent to the system memory, it has to be loaded by the disk, and the disk is normally the slowest thing in the whole computer, if you take apart those dvd-drives (even slower) and other storage devices!
Buy one of those! I heard that Windwos Vista will be/is making exclusive use of those, writing all the files neccesary to start into the FlashRam when you shut down, and then you could start windows in mere seconds!
I would suggest you to first look for the processor, then search for a fitting motherboard (because they only fit to the correct motherboards, they have a 'socket system' and everyone seems to use different ones. Very confusing.). Then you can search for the fitting memory. Then the graphics card and then the harddrives. At the end you would look for the rest, like sound/network cards (many mainboard already have them built in, there's nothing wrong with a Gigabit-Network onbard...) and the famous dvd-burners.
Hope that helps...
Everyone can see the difficult, but only the wise can see the simple.
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MakerOfGames
- Posts: 866
- Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:27 am
- Location: PA, USA
Thanks that does help.
Now I have a few questions that I guess could solve most of my confusion if anyone can answer these...
Processor:
What would be a good speed to look for? I was looking into laptops and found that the highest option on an HP dv6000t was a dual core 2, 2.0 Ghz with 4Mb of L2 cache. Is a desktop with similar specs going to be one that will last for a good while? Or should I look into a faster one? How much cache should I look for?
Graphics card:
Nvidia vs ATI Which company produces a better graphics card?
And how much RAM should I look into 128, 256, 512? I want to build a pc that will be able to play pc games for years to come. I am thinking I would go for the massive 512 as long as its price is right. I remember last summer I found a 512meg graphics card for only $90 online.
Ok, so what good does SLi really do? I watched it when it first came out, but don't know its feasibility. Each card in an SLi system renders either the odd or even lines on the monitor. Also, it divides the screen up into portions for each card to render to divide the workload. So if it does increase performance would the following be a good plan:
Purchase an SLi motherboard and only put in one graphics card, then when the strength of the one card isn't enough just buy another of my graphics card and enable SLi. Or would the performance gained by SLi not be enough to boost the performance of the old gpu('s) to run newer games when the card would be out of date?
RAM:
Basically I'm thinking that 1 gig is enough, but 2 gigs will last a good while. Ok, so I would want 2 Gb of DDR2 ram, but what speed(Mhz) should I look for?
Power supply:
I have seen many different watts available. What is standard?
PC Case:
I didn't think that this would be complicated but I have found all sorts of cases. Ones with many fans as special "gaming" cases for instance. Is there anything I should look for in a case?
Hard drive:
I haven't heard of hard drives that have integrated flash ram in them. It sounds like that is something that could make a world of difference. And how many RPMs are the standard now? The last I knew it was 7400 RPM, but I have seen 10,000 and 15,000 RPMs.
I think that is all of my questions.
Thanks
Now I have a few questions that I guess could solve most of my confusion if anyone can answer these...
Processor:
What would be a good speed to look for? I was looking into laptops and found that the highest option on an HP dv6000t was a dual core 2, 2.0 Ghz with 4Mb of L2 cache. Is a desktop with similar specs going to be one that will last for a good while? Or should I look into a faster one? How much cache should I look for?
Graphics card:
Nvidia vs ATI Which company produces a better graphics card?
And how much RAM should I look into 128, 256, 512? I want to build a pc that will be able to play pc games for years to come. I am thinking I would go for the massive 512 as long as its price is right. I remember last summer I found a 512meg graphics card for only $90 online.
Ok, so what good does SLi really do? I watched it when it first came out, but don't know its feasibility. Each card in an SLi system renders either the odd or even lines on the monitor. Also, it divides the screen up into portions for each card to render to divide the workload. So if it does increase performance would the following be a good plan:
Purchase an SLi motherboard and only put in one graphics card, then when the strength of the one card isn't enough just buy another of my graphics card and enable SLi. Or would the performance gained by SLi not be enough to boost the performance of the old gpu('s) to run newer games when the card would be out of date?
RAM:
Basically I'm thinking that 1 gig is enough, but 2 gigs will last a good while. Ok, so I would want 2 Gb of DDR2 ram, but what speed(Mhz) should I look for?
Power supply:
I have seen many different watts available. What is standard?
PC Case:
I didn't think that this would be complicated but I have found all sorts of cases. Ones with many fans as special "gaming" cases for instance. Is there anything I should look for in a case?
Hard drive:
I haven't heard of hard drives that have integrated flash ram in them. It sounds like that is something that could make a world of difference. And how many RPMs are the standard now? The last I knew it was 7400 RPM, but I have seen 10,000 and 15,000 RPMs.
I think that is all of my questions.
Thanks
Think outside the box.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.
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darksmaster923
- Posts: 1857
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:32 pm
- Location: Huntington Beach, California, USA
Laptops are never as good as a desktop, but can get really close, (especially if its a beast eg alienware) basically you can be sure if its a good dual core it will last you a while, but quad core is even better, if your willing to pay.Processor:
What would be a good speed to look for? I was looking into laptops and found that the highest option on an HP dv6000t was a dual core 2, 2.0 Ghz with 4Mb of L2 cache. Is a desktop with similar specs going to be one that will last for a good while? Or should I look into a faster one? How much cache should I look for?
Nvidia is MY preference but thats largely based on the fact that their naming system of their cards actually makes sence so I dont have to know what a X79676Dksubv is and basically atm the 8800 is in the lead, I recomend the 8800 "lite" that just came out I forget what the actuall prefix was but its a LOT cheaper than the 8800 GTX and it has only 15% less power (info from PCGAMER last monthe)Graphics card:
Nvidia vs ATI Which company produces a better graphics card?
And how much RAM should I look into 128, 256, 512? I want to build a pc that will be able to play pc games for years to come. I am thinking I would go for the massive 512 as long as its price is right. I remember last summer I found a 512meg graphics card for only $90 online.
SLi is good, BUT what you are suggesting is unfeasable, I thawt about it too a time ago, but the guy in the store told me that for SLi to work you HAD to have the IDENTICAL (im talking speed, make, version, memory, brand) as the other card for it to work and so finding it after a few years could be impossible, also it just seems a waste to buy a SLi mobo if you dont use it, anyway the 8800 is better than dual 7800s together so yeah...Ok, so what good does SLi really do? I watched it when it first came out, but don't know its feasibility. Each card in an SLi system renders either the odd or even lines on the monitor. Also, it divides the screen up into portions for each card to render to divide the workload. So if it does increase performance would the following be a good plan:
Purchase an SLi motherboard and only put in one graphics card, then when the strength of the one card isn't enough just buy another of my graphics card and enable SLi. Or would the performance gained by SLi not be enough to boost the performance of the old gpu('s) to run newer games when the card would be out of date?
2gig is better than 1 BUT you can always buy more later and always go for DDR2 cause if your mobo is anygood it will be built for it.RAM:
Basically I'm thinking that 1 gig is enough, but 2 gigs will last a good while. Ok, so I would want 2 Gb of DDR2 ram, but what speed(Mhz) should I look for?
if you have a good card eg 8800 you NEED about 700wattsPower supply:
I have seen many different watts available. What is standard?
You need lots of fans, and drives, and big enuf for all your nice hardware, and you WANT nice looks and lots of lights, also light weight for transportPC Case:
I didn't think that this would be complicated but I have found all sorts of cases. Ones with many fans as special "gaming" cases for instance. Is there anything I should look for in a case?
I dont really know what integrated flash ram IS, but I think it means you can use some of your harddrive for ram, but I could be wrong, anyway I think that a basic 10 000 RPM 300gig will last you a long while and is pretty much all you need.Hard drive:
I haven't heard of hard drives that have integrated flash ram in them. It sounds like that is something that could make a world of difference. And how many RPMs are the standard now? The last I knew it was 7400 RPM, but I have seen 10,000 and 15,000 RPMs.
I hope this helps, I actually know very little about hardware but I have learned a bit over the years, I tried to answer each question as best I can but you mihgt want a second opinion
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Flash Ram is exactly the same as the cards you put into your digicam (or usb stick, not sure about the usb stick), if i am not wrong. Don't know why they called it 'Ram' then because it doesn't loose it's contents when you turned it off. However, i read about the harddrives in a pc magazine and thought 'hey cool, my next pc should have this.'...Maybe they are not out yet and it was only a preview.psYco wrote:I dont really know what integrated flash ram IS, but I think it means you can use some of your harddrive for ram, but I could be wrong, anyway I think that a basic 10 000 RPM 300gig will last you a long while and is pretty much all you need.
'use some of your harddrive for ram'...well, this exists, it is called virtual memory (virtual ram, don't know how it is called in english, hope that's right) and is done since windows 95...however, this gets lesser important every day...
Everyone can see the difficult, but only the wise can see the simple.
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virtual memory isnot near as good as having the extra sticks of ram,because the access times on a hard drive are measured in milliseconds,while a ram stick is measured in nanoseconds so virtual memory is useful,but its better to get more ram,also to maximize the usefelness of virtual memory,get a quick hard drive like 15000 rpms
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True story.
True story.
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SithMaster
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:45 pm
SLI is only needed if you have two of the same model video card (that supports sli i think) and a mobo that supports it. its lets them split the workload so its okay for gaming but id stay away from it.
check around for the evga 7600 gt if it will be enough for your needs. i got mine for 100 on sale maybe 5 months ago and it might be on sale on newegg again.
id stay away from dual core unless you want to have a 4 ghz dual core lol. check tomshardware.com for info on that one.
nvidia is better for opengl and ati is for directx or something like that. i forget the exact saying.
start by picking a brand of processor so either intel or amd.
look through mobos that support your processor choice.
find ram that will work with your mobo (go for at least a gb)
if anything post links here so that those who are tech savy can give advice. i did that when i had to replace my mobo. i picked something different in the end but it pointed me in a different direction. also use parts you already have like a case and cd/dvd drives. the biggest thing that pissed me off when i needed a new mobo was i couldnt use my windows install disc and i had to buy a new copy of windows. i get why i cant but in my situation it really made me madd and an emachines hater.
finally check slickdeals.net for sales.
check around for the evga 7600 gt if it will be enough for your needs. i got mine for 100 on sale maybe 5 months ago and it might be on sale on newegg again.
id stay away from dual core unless you want to have a 4 ghz dual core lol. check tomshardware.com for info on that one.
nvidia is better for opengl and ati is for directx or something like that. i forget the exact saying.
start by picking a brand of processor so either intel or amd.
look through mobos that support your processor choice.
find ram that will work with your mobo (go for at least a gb)
if anything post links here so that those who are tech savy can give advice. i did that when i had to replace my mobo. i picked something different in the end but it pointed me in a different direction. also use parts you already have like a case and cd/dvd drives. the biggest thing that pissed me off when i needed a new mobo was i couldnt use my windows install disc and i had to buy a new copy of windows. i get why i cant but in my situation it really made me madd and an emachines hater.
finally check slickdeals.net for sales.
The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.
Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.
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MakerOfGames
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darksmaster923
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- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:32 pm
- Location: Huntington Beach, California, USA
Same here - if you aren't going to fill it up, it's better to go with the DDR3. On one hand, if you don't fill it up, it will be much faster. On the other hand, if you do fill it up, it will, I believe, dump into main system memory, which will be much slower than DDR2 for that data. However, I play Half-Life 2, run Aero Glass, and so on and haven't run into an issue with video ram.
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MakerOfGames
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- Location: PA, USA
Thanks for the help everyone. Now I have one more question. I have gotten all my parts and assembled my pc. I bought Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit OEM(I have a 64Bit compatible processor,Intel Core 2 Duo, and motherboard, ASUS P5NSLI) and the DVD won't boot to install windows. After the motherboard boots and it tries to read the drives I get the following error:
"DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER"
I have tried that and no avail.
I have 2 dvd drives(lite-On) which only one is currently recognized by the motherboard. The other does not show up. No matter which drive I use, I power the computer up with the Vista DVD in and I get the error. I have downloaded my hard drives diagnostics tool, tested my hard drive(Western Digital-OEM) and there are no errors. I have unplugged and replugged the hard drive back in and tried and still have no success. I have been searching the internet for any help but I can only find help on how to install Vista with another version of windows present. Info on clean install of Vista only says to start the computer up with the DVD in the drive. Can anyone help me?
*I have set the boot order on the mother board to:
1-CD-Rom (dvd drive)
2-harddrive
3-removable
"DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER"
I have tried that and no avail.
I have 2 dvd drives(lite-On) which only one is currently recognized by the motherboard. The other does not show up. No matter which drive I use, I power the computer up with the Vista DVD in and I get the error. I have downloaded my hard drives diagnostics tool, tested my hard drive(Western Digital-OEM) and there are no errors. I have unplugged and replugged the hard drive back in and tried and still have no success. I have been searching the internet for any help but I can only find help on how to install Vista with another version of windows present. Info on clean install of Vista only says to start the computer up with the DVD in the drive. Can anyone help me?
*I have set the boot order on the mother board to:
1-CD-Rom (dvd drive)
2-harddrive
3-removable
Think outside the box.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.
well theres severel ways round this, the first one that comes to mind is in the bias setup, you access this as your computer starts up, normaly the first scren and its an 'F#' key, i belive F2 mabe, it should say anyway, once there you can choose from what drive you want to boot your computer from, select your dvd drive, this will then boot from the dvd next time you start your pc.
anotehr one is telling your computer to from what drive to boot from without going into the bias, i cant remember this too well (had a drink tonight so....) but i belive as your computer starts up its an 'F#' key again.. ill find out, restarted my pc, on mine bias is F2 and boot menu is F12, from the boot menu select your dvd drive.
if this dont work then it could be something to do with your primary and slave settings on the actual hardware, on the back of your hard drive/dvd rom there are a set of pins, for the I.D.E cable, next to them is a set of 2x8 pins, they should have little conceters on some, you move these to tell the computer if its a master or slave drive, if they use the same IDE slot on your motherboard then you need to make sure one is master and one is slave.
i hope that helps
edit* oops i never saw this part
)
edit* edit*
if its the ide settings, the conecters have different configurations, they come of and be replaces, the different settings are normaly either printed in initials on the drive itself or in the instruction manual.
(ohh how i loved system instalation and configuration (part of college course))
anotehr one is telling your computer to from what drive to boot from without going into the bias, i cant remember this too well (had a drink tonight so....) but i belive as your computer starts up its an 'F#' key again.. ill find out, restarted my pc, on mine bias is F2 and boot menu is F12, from the boot menu select your dvd drive.
if this dont work then it could be something to do with your primary and slave settings on the actual hardware, on the back of your hard drive/dvd rom there are a set of pins, for the I.D.E cable, next to them is a set of 2x8 pins, they should have little conceters on some, you move these to tell the computer if its a master or slave drive, if they use the same IDE slot on your motherboard then you need to make sure one is master and one is slave.
i hope that helps
edit* oops i never saw this part
then i belive its something to do with your primary and slave setup. (i could be wrong tho*I have set the boot order on the mother board to:
1-CD-Rom (dvd drive)
2-harddrive
3-removable
)edit* edit*
if its the ide settings, the conecters have different configurations, they come of and be replaces, the different settings are normaly either printed in initials on the drive itself or in the instruction manual.
(ohh how i loved system instalation and configuration (part of college course))
*GD*
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MakerOfGames
- Posts: 866
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- Location: PA, USA
Thank you Scott! Both of my DVD drives were set to slaves(default out of box). I set one to master and now its reading my installation disk! I didn't know about that setting and how it would affect the way the computer would read drives. Thanks again!
Think outside the box.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.
To go on an adventure, one must discard the comforts and safety of the known and trusted.