Reality Factory

This thread can be the start of a thread series where we voice our opinion for our own game research or curiosity. (Feel free to create your own, Racing, Adventure, Action, Fighting, etc..: What do you like in this genera? thread)

So, while working on my FPS game project and thinking of gameplay, I asked myself, What do I like in this genera? and found that I wanted to here others opinions. So, what is it about FPS games that you like? or dislike?

I want to know what you think about this game genera such as:
Likes
Dislikes
What to improve/ leave it go/ or avoid doing
What levels of gameplay intensity do you enjoy?
What other generas do you like to see incorporated into this genera?
And whatever else you can think of to say about FPS games.

I like FPS games that are creative and set new standards.
I have enjoyed:
HALO
HALO 2
Half Life -Uplink(Demo of the 1st Half Life)
TimeSplitters 2
007 Goldeneye(only played multiplayer)
007 Agent Under Fire
007 Nightfire

I have played these other titles but have found they are not what I personally enjoy:
Perfect Dark Zero(only played Xbox 360 multiplayer)
Unreal Tournament 2004(played the demo and used to really enjoy it, but now prefere more than the point and shoot style.)

Some of my games listed as to have enjoyed are still under par in my opinion, but were ones good enough to keep playing and like what it had to offer. Nightfire is one. It was good, but nothing was great or wow.


I like games that have more realistic properties, but keep a good amount of fiction to them. I do not enjoy games with gore, and like to keep the games as games and not human deformation simulations, and I don't enjoy seeing blood splatter all over.

With that said, I enjoy all sorts of gameplay elements mixed in such as puzzel, platforming and adventure/exploration.

I don't enjoy linear level designs, overused plots, and repetative gameplay that seem to flood the market.

I think more innovation needs to come into the genera in any form, it seems that there are only a few games that break the mold.

So, with my opinion said, whats yours?

I really like the Metroid Prime series. The one thing I don't like is that it takes too long to turn around, if you do an FPS, make yourself turn faster. However I really like the fact that it feels like you are the Character. As if you are in the game itself and not just a person w/ a camera standing behind the person. I do like that You can see from the person's eyes. I have stated my oppinion.

What I like most in a FPS game is a mixture of realism and unrealism. Headshots should kill, I don't like games where you can take 10 assault rifle shots to the face and keep shooting.

On the other hand, the main character should be easy to control. I hate games with "realistic" and clumsy movement. The controls should also be as simple as possible, I don't like having to assign half of the keys in my keyboard to different actions. One example of tricky controls is S.T.A.L.K.E.R, where you have to press two buttons to get the player to crouch properly. Pressing one button makes the player crouch halfway and then you have to press the second one so he crouches completely. However, the game was so great even with these little flaws that I just had to play it.

I like games with challenge and where skill matters. Half-Life 2 was a bit of a disappointment to me. It was waaayyy too easy even with the toughest difficulty setting. Anyone with decent skills in quicksaving and quickloading could manage it. This brings us to the matter I'd like to discuss the most: I think quicksave and quickload are excellent ideas. They make saving and loading very easy, but at the same time they can be abused outrageosly. I mean, what's the fun in killing one enemy, saving, dying in the next one, loading, knowing where the next enemy is, killing that one, saving and finishing the whole game like this? That's why I'm not planning a quicksave/quickload system for my game, even if we get the script command for saving and loading the game. I kinda like how this problem was solved in Far Cry. There is no manual save in the game, only checkpoints placed by the game creators. However, I don't think that's the best way to do it in such a game, Far Cry is pretty non-linear and if you decide to find your own way to a place instead of the taking the road planned by the developers, there are no checkpoints and so you can swim 10 minutes, die and start all over again. The game itself was ridiculous, BTW, all the mutants and stuff.


These are the features I usually look for in a FPS, but the most important is yet to come. I make my final decicion about playing a game based on whether it entertains me or not. In the end, that's what gaming is all about to me. The game has to entertain me.

Likes
action
realistic to a point (no OMG it takes 5 hs to kill or 1 shot to kill in mp like the awp in css <_<)
intense firefights (sadly, some of my maps im making are a bit too big for intense firefites)
fps in general over all other genres
games wher i randomly kill enemies

lets see
counter strike source(takes skill)
bf2
cod
quake 3 demo ö

Thanks for your input so far!

This is a good start! Now, how much difficulty and challenge do you like in this genera? Halo 2 on normal is sometimes difficult but not challenging. By difficult I mean when you are stuck by an enemy sticky grenade. Theres nothing you can do and you automatically die and then learn where to expect them. I think near death experience is where difficulty and challenge should show up. If a game is difficult and challenging, your mortality in game would be close to being lost more often than not. Not just a bam, its gone, and try again kind of thing.

I totally agree that health realism is important, and that when you or enemies get shot in certain areas, you should not stay standing.



So, now I have some more questions for your opinions....

FPS stands for first person shooter, but many of them exit their first person status with vehicles, turrets and certain other environmental interactions.

So, what do you think of this? Should FPS games be completely first person? or is it ok to have these exceptions?

I personally, think first person means first person and that the camera shouldn't change to another view ever. I think it adds a better sense of realism and gives a better experience for what I look for in games. I mean I like Halo and Halo 2 alot, but the view changing just abruptly exits you out of the world the designers were trying to get you to believe in.

Now, here is a real gray area for the first person genera, cutscenes. Only if the story and gameplay are focused enough can the story truely be told through first person. Otherwise, you are taken out of your character and their knowledge of the world to learn more than what they will know, which obliterates the player character bond that is created after walking in the main characters shoes.

Now, I must say that the cut scenes in games are very well done these days, and give you a cinematic feel. But I feel that these cutscenes only waterdown what could have been a truly immersing experience. This leaves you with an arcade gameplay feel because even though you may have done a lot, you aren't the one who has accomplished it, its the character that has.

Personally I think the best way to do a first person game is to keep it all first person. Even for cutscenes. I even think that Metroid Prime could have gone without its short cutscenes. I would rather have the computer take over the controls temporarily and stay in the first person view.

So, what do you think about this genera's indecisive camera angle?

I like FPS games that stay completely first person, like if you enter a vehicle, you can see out the windshield. I don't like games where you don't have a targeting Reticle, like if you actually have to use the sights.

Likes: Unreal Tournament Series
Dislikes: Everything else

I especially hate Morrowind as I believe that a person playing an RPG should be able to see his/her character that he/she spent 30 minutes creating. Perfect camera view for an RPG is that of Final Fantasy 12.

Unreal is just a beauty to look at and a joy to play online.

paradoxnj wrote:Likes: Unreal Tournament Series
Dislikes: Everything else

I especially hate Morrowind as I believe that a person playing an RPG should be able to see his/her character that he/she spent 30 minutes creating. Perfect camera view for an RPG is that of Final Fantasy 12.

Unreal is just a beauty to look at and a joy to play online.

but you can. just change the camera to 3rd person

i have sort of avoided this as its gona take some time to put everything down.... but i have a bit of time so here goes.
fps, one game comes to mind straight away FarCry, buitiful game, LOTS of shooting and ALL first person, one of the better games i have played, i like it when your target is set so you know where to go and what to do and dont have to remember or search into the aquard little crak in the corner on the tenth floor at the end of the coridoor, you go in, shoot enemies, down the hall through the door where you have been pointed to or been told to go.
realism, thats a hard one, while games strive to get more real they never will be real so how real do you make them, its a computer game, health bars they are taking away now, amo counts removed, nothing at all in the latest COD the game will never be real so keep the health bars they are important, the player dont feel the shots and think, ooo, whats this red stuff coming from my chest, omg im bleeding im never playing this game again!!! so i personaly think keep those bars.
ammo count, i think this is up to the game creator, it is handy to have them but in real life they dont have them and there is no difference in knowing how much ammo you got in real life than in a game, either counting them or counting how long your firing for. (unless the weapon in question does have a counter on it)
difficulty, this is an important question if you dont want to shoot yourself in the foot, make it EASY, a 5 year old can play and win with ease!!! BUT also have a hard setting where it is only the elite that can win, not everyone who plays a game could be a gamer and has good hand to eye coordination, the game should be fun, and say you never played a game before, you could find it really hard so never play it and give it bad reviews, difficulty settings is the way to go.

i personaly dont like it when one bullet in the foot kills you or a sticky bomb kills you instantly from full health but saying that, make a hard mode for those that do.

diferent tactiks, every player has different styles of killing, some blow them up, some run in and shoot everyone with a ak some like to take their time and snipe them of one by one. dont limit the player to one tactic at anyone time, let them use their own style all the way through and also be able to swap them easily, if you have a friendly npc and you want to snipe the enemies ahead, dont make them go running of after the enemies, make the npc find cover.

npc logic, well make them as good as possible, like i mentiond just dont make them run of after enemies if your sniping, similaly make the enemies find cover if being sniped like they would do, if a grenade is thrown, make them run away from it, be it they have a delay so it seems like they just figured out what it was, unles they saw the player throw it. dont give the npc extra abilities or be ble to do stuff the player cant.

another thing i hate is when if i play a game solidly i complete it by the end of the day, FarCry, i have had it over a month, i play it solidly for a day and give it a rest, i have about 4-5 days play and still havnt completed it. keep the player beliving they have almost completed the game, they will think, ahh almost the end, i will keep going for a bit more, then the next level loads, damn thought that was the end, this HAS to be the end now i will carry on first thing tomorow wont take me that long, then they finish that level and another starts, aslong as you dont promis the player the end then they will keep on playing.
in far cry, your objective is to escape from the islands, one mission is to take out radio jaming equipment to call in a helicopter or boat to get you off them, sounds like the end when you destroy them, ohh no another level, you have to save your friend, ok saved her now an we go, no we got to set of a nuke to destroy the facility, ok nukes been detinated, has to be the end, what nooooo, im now in a helicopter with the enemy, been kiked of it onto a small island with no weapons, ok lets escape from the island, ohh, just grate now im infected with a desises got to find the antidote, got to go kill the games boss, the guy who built the laboratry and the desies to get the antidote, he dont have it, so now we have a situation where your own turn on you.
i thought the game couldnt possibly go on any longer than detinating a nuke, but no, as you can see still going, all of this after lots of levels already, it will make people carry on playing if they belive they are near the end.

different types of weapons, now theres no point i having to hand guns, different models but d the same thing, its pointless, different rocket launchers, they launch rockets whats so different... make the guns clearly different to each other, also if the player wants a rocket launcher and a sniper rifle then let them, dont limit the player to kits like bf2142 and otehrs, i want to go round blowing the hell out of stuf and snipe people the other side of the lake.

keep it fun, i dont want to play a game where its not fun, i will stop playing and give in, dont make it imposible for the player to do, if the player starts a level with 10% health and dies, obviously they arnt going to be able to do that level with the amount of health, when the player restarts dont insult them by giving full health and full armor, give them 50% health and 25% armor until they find a health pack somewhere in the game.

health packs, ahh the magic of boxes that remove all bullets and signs of being hit, in real life people get trained to go to war, they know how to cover them selvs and not get hit, this is a game and is fun, NO TRAINING REQUIRED so use health packs, in hte hardest setting you could take them out and let the body recover itself as it would do.

a number one NO in my books is making the player go back and forth acros a level to reach the objectives JUST to lenghten the game, ive seen that place once, no twice even three times i dont want to see it again unles there is point to it, i hate games also where you cant do something obvious like go through a door, and they give the same reason to why you cant, its broken, not even the handel has been nocked of, they all say its broken... not an excuse, an anoyance!

special abilities, this was exelently done in FarCry, thermo gogles, i cant see the enemy so use thermo gogles ahh there you are bang on the floor, but saying that dont make it so you have to use them, it just helps to use them in ocasions. special abilites dont have to be just super fast sprint, turning into a ball, invincable for 20 seconds, they cna be realistic and in context to the game

dont take the player away from the action for too long, they will get bored, quick loading times, mabe short levels, or one big loading time, short cutscenes if used, dont make the have to rek through a jungle to get to the other end to shoot one guy, one its boring and two if they fail to kill the guy they have to trek through the jungle again.

reward the player for doing good, give the player some satisfaction, but then again dont insult the player by making it too obvious, ohh wow, i got gold or a star, and then another person says i got nothing, give the top players something but give the poor players something else, mabe to help them to become better.

in devil may cry 3 it realy insulted the player, you have the choice of normal or dificult setting at the start, if you choose normal and keep dieing after so many times it says easy mode is now unlocked, like how insulting is that. when naming the dificulty levels dont name them easy, normal, hard the person who plays the easy mode will feel inferior all the way through the game, ohh wow i done the game in easy, does that mean im crap then? unlike the person who completes it in hard mode, they will feel satisfaction then, knowing they beet the game at the hard setting.

story line, dont make an fps just for the sake of killing people, its been done a million times, its not fun no more, make a story line even tell it to the player while they are playing the game, via radio or phone or some means of communicating while the player is running around.

saves, let the player have saves, put them at health and ammo stores before hard bosses, thats what they are there for, have auto save but dont save over other saves, but dont let the player be able to save when they feel like as its then cheating, and takes half the chalange away.

controls, its a fps not a letter, i dont want to type words out to do an action, i have a mouse and movement, i want to run have capslocks on, look capslocks light is on, im running, i want to walk have it off, i want to crouch press space bar its the biggest key on the keyboard easily reached and pressed

well all of this is my opinion and what i have picked up from playing games over the last 10 years over the different systems, none of it is actual fact and i hope its some help to you and other people and i hope i coverd most of the good and bad (its harder for the bad points as you dont think about them, same as types of games you dont like, when you go to a shop do you think i like fps lets look for fps or do you think, i dont like football lets look for anything but football games)

That was big and long.

yea well i hope people find it useful and actualy read it.

About the grenade, that's really nice to have that, like in Kill Zone, if you throw a Grenade, the enemies yell "Scatter! Grenade!" and all run for cover. I really don't like games where if you throw a grenade, they just sit there like DUUUUUUUURRR, there's a grenade fred, should we run? Duungh, NOPE, we should just die BOOM! they all die. I also don't like those cheap games where they'll say like "Oh no! a grenade!" and just sit there, or actually run towards the grenade. Shots to the foot should not kill. Like in Metroid Prime Hunters online, each place on the body get hurt differently, limbs are weapon damage x1 torso is weapon damage x1.5 and headshots do weapon damage x3 and gives you a little note that says "headshot" Dificculty level are good, however it should be labeled something like "Starter" "Intermediate" and "Top" They should all be unlocked from the start. The weapons should be clearly different. Vehicles should be as different as the weapons, not a car w/ a gun and a motorcycle w/ a gun. Your character should not be so "all powerful" you shouldn't be ablt to climb on top of a tank, throw the driver out and take the tank.

Concerning grenades i like how halo ce and halo 2 worked them in. Instead of having to switch to grenades then throw them you can just toss'em.

I hate the idea of Master cheif driving a tank by himself. They require a crew to operate so he shouldnt be able to do it all himself. As for 3rd person view when inside the warthog i like the idea of 3rd person since it mimics using the mirrors or turning the head to look to the sides. It does take away from immersion but a necessary evil i say.

Clearly i really enjoyed the halo series so i will use it again for my sake. I dont think weapons should be weaker for the player in harder difficulties. The enemies should get smarter or they should get better weapons (upgrade from a smg to an assault rifle or to a shotgun) and everything else like health and the damage dealt by the weapons should remain static.

recently while considering my own fps im working on i thought about the games i liked the most. they are halo ce, classic doom, gears of war, halo 2, and cod2. Doom was a good game but i really enjoyed the coop. I really like coop (single player is fine too but its fun to fight along with a friend) so when halo and gears included it i was estatic. Halo 3 will have 4 player coop (something ive wanted for years) and i couldnt be happier but there is a worry. When halo ce was released for the pc they excluded it because the developers didnt think people would want to play together using one keyboard and one mouse. I thought this heresy since pcs have the gamer given ability to network even go online so making halo ce for the pc have coop would have been amazing. I plan on implementing coop for my game over a network but more modern games should have the feature.

In cod2 they included the iron sights for aiming and i really liked how it made aiming easier, especially at range, but made you move slower. i did not like how the weapons made you slower (ie the handgun made you run while the rocket launcher made you walk). The grenade indicator was a nice touch and the game really felt nonlinear. i have to say the ai was pretty dumb at times usually after ive thrown a grenade or by not firing at an enemy in front of them.

Gears had good weapon designs and the roadie run so it makes my list even though its third person. it was also a game from the point of view of an infantrymen so he was doing amazing things with a tank. you drive an apc (worst level in my opinion) but that is something one can expect from an average grunt.

Finally i like recharging health. Gears and cod 4 had it and halo called theirs a shield (ce had health packs but if you worked the shields right you wouldnt need em) but they made the game a lot easier and less repitious. What i mean is i didnt have to backtrack to get a health pack i left behind.

Another point im fond of is the 2 weapon rule and having guns being a blunt object for melee. it adds strategy to the otherwise almighty doomguy.

and killzone was a good game. it should be on my list as well since i love the art and weapon designs. I didnt care for the health system or the helghast sniper rifle but the enemies audio cues and use of moving through cover was excellant.

one last thing. halo ce didnt have them but halo 2 did, boss battles, and i really thought it made the game slightly less appealing. I get that it makes the game a little longer (tartarus was hard to beat sometimes). it just seems out of place when in a fps.

alright this is the last two things. I hate when given the choice of me or an npc on my team the enemy ai always targets me. i get that im playing the game challenge me idea but i will hate the game for its lame logic. if im the closest enemy then sure attack me or if i have a better weapon but am slightly farther away its okay but not when as soon as i round a corner the fighting stops and all guns turn towards me. this mainly goes out to cod2 and gears.

finally in halo enemies using their guns actually made them waste bullets. it was amazing because if i faught an elite for long enough he might waste all his ammo. i never tried it but they did go from 100 rds to 70 rds and it made me happy. humans didnt waste rds and im sure the enemy wouldnt drop to zero anytime soon either (everyone would just call a timeout i guess) but it made the fight more believable.

thats my list of my favorite fps ideas and fps mistakes.

SithMaster wrote: Halo 3 will have 4 player coop (something ive wanted for years) and i couldnt be happier but there is a worry.

dude
bf2 has coop for like 32 ppl but idk if you would like that game

But isnt bf2 just capture this point capture that point or did they add a story to it? I consider bf games to be a great big multiplayer game not coop.